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hello and welcome to the skeptic zone

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episode number 56 for the 13th of

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November 2009 Friday Friday okay that's

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enough of that on this week's show we

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have a special interview conducted by

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Kylie Sturgis in Perth with Tom Perry

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and Ricky burns now Tom Perry and Ricky

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burns are the wonderful people who did

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the photographic session with dr. rachy

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and myself a couple of months ago

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fantastically good fun very generous of

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them but they have a very interesting

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insight into skepticism and their role

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in the media that's coming up in a

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moment after that we have a report from

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the mind-body-spirit festival that was

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here in Sydney where Joann been amoo and

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myself and some other skeptics go along

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so we have a little introduction then we

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get into Joe's a report about the

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mind-body Wallace as we call it followed

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by our wrap up and you'll hear me giving

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some straightforward advice to some of

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the people there after that we have dr.

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Reggie reports and her interview with

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dr. Alex Lucas about hookworms oh yes

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hmm and then after that we have the

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think tank the good old think tank so

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sit back grab a nice glass of apple and

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raspberry cordial why not that's what

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I've got right here and enjoy this

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I'm Carly Sturgis and I'm talking to

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Ricky burns and Tom Perry when skeptic

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zones Richard and dr. H II came to first

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a special photo shoot was donated by

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both Ricky and Tom who work in

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advertising you can see the photos and

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the behind-the-scenes video on the

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skeptics own Facebook page their

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generosity and talents led us to keep in

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touch so I'm talking to them about

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creativity they've used on how skeptics

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can tap into mainstream media and the

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marketing of skepticism I'm

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photographers from Western Australia I

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work dominantly in advertising great and

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wearing a skeptic's guide to the

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universe t-shirt yes and the person

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who's responsible for the skeptics

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founder the university shirt is sitting

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next to me as well hello Ricky hi Kylie

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tell us about yourself um I'm an art

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director I work in an advertising agency

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now you say something about my hair you

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have a lovely bow in your hair thank you

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so I'm here with two people who are in

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an arts related field in one way or

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another why because you're both skeptics

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aren't you or consider yourself to be

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skeptics very much so yeah I think I'm a

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skeptic purely because I am naturally

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inclined that way I have a natural

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inclination to question what is put in

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front of me and not just blindly accept

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it and through being like that most my

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life I'd I found the movement mm-hmm and

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guess adopted the word although I never

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really used the word before and it's

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just become appropriate and I've got

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particularly excited and enthused and I

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enjoy being involved yeah what do you

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think about the name skeptic um I don't

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think there's a problem with the name I

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think there might be slight perception

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problem with people that don't

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understand what it is but I don't think

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we can just go and put some kind of fake

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name on it or try and create a brand

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around it which doesn't explain what it

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really is I think there's a negative

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connotation to the word in the general

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public that when you explain what it is

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people is shared very very quickly I

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think with the moment getting bigger and

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bigger all the time and more people

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having their ears pricked up to it that

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will slowly become less and less and you

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know I really enjoy the word I think

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it's an appropriate word and over time I

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think it's a perfect piece of branding

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it's just all the other things that will

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slowly come along to be associated with

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that which is usually too damn media

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exposure what are some of the big

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influences on youtube in terms of

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embracing skepticism I guess my journey

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to I mean I'm an atheist very much an

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atheist in my a lot of people I find

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become skeptics and then become atheist

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side I did it the other way round my

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parents are both militant atheists Judah

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reasons of their upbringing in the East

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End of London and all sorts of reasons

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but I was always brought up to not only

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question but really quite aggressively

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question religious dogma and I guess

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when that really became a form of

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skepticism was I was living in a suburb

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of Perth with a friend and and the

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jehovah's witnesses came and knocked on

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the door and he threw a bunch of

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arguments at me trying to be persuasive

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in all nice and I'm standing there

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smiling and I systematically pulled

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apart very rationally very friendly

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pulled apart each of his arguments that

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you went okay I'll see you in two week

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two weeks he showed up again with

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another set of arguments fish eyes all

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the standard things you know arguing

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against evolution and intelligent design

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all sorts of things and I picked each

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one of those off based on the knowledge

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that I naturally acquire because I'm

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interested in science even though I am

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an artist I'd I I read a lot about

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science and I watch as many

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documentaries as I can squeeze into my

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vision and it got me to starting to

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research things so he would occasionally

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come with a question that I didn't have

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a satisfactory answer for so he'd go

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away to get more questions I'd go away

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and research the answer to his question

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and this probably happened eight or nine

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times over the space of about six months

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a time you would have become quite good

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friends five universities need

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well I guess it was a begrudging respect

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between the two of us and eventually one

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day he showed up with a woman who must

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have been in her mid 90s and she was

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they bring these people around I assumed

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to gain sympathy from the people whose

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doors they're knocking on and she was

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blind and she was shaking and she was in

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bad shape and I just thought for men

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trying to sell religion it was the most

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immoral horrific thing to do and I just

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lost my rag at him and I told him at

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that point when I thought of him and he

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never came back again but I mean by that

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point I was already really into it so I

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died I sit and I wait for people to

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knock on my door I mean thankfully I I

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through my work for myself so I work

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from home so I'm there when they knocked

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on my door god I enjoy it I think he's

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not home I run and hide under the bed

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you're not one for confrontation so what

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is your approach what what led you to

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the woods his pal did you have a similar

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sort of up um no definitely not my dad

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has always been really into science my

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mom not so much she works at a stoner

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school and she's into a lot of hippie

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kind of things and new age exactly so

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every time my three brothers and I go

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home and have dinner we all start

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pulling apart the things that she says

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which is awful did you go to the Steiner

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school yourself I'm a little familiar

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with world off Stan as some methodology

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yeah it definitely does and I think that

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her school is not too insane now I went

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to a normal school my parents were

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always pseudo-religious kind of wanted

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me to go to Sunday school but I wouldn't

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leave the house without mom so I didn't

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yeah so I was just kind of brought up

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with you know his religion you can take

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it or leave it and three of my brothers

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and I all turned out quite skeptical and

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atheist so why choose the art direction

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rather than science since obviously had

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a bit of an impact upon your lives you

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mentioned you yourself had a career in

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architecture for a while yeah i think

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the way my brain is wired

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I have a natural inclination to do

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things that are 5050 technical and

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artistic and I think both Ricky and I

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having a technical inclination and a

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scientific inclination both of our jobs

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are artistic but at the same time it's

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not it's not fine art but our days are

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filled with here is a problem here's you

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know and then you need to come up with a

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bunch of technical solutions to it and

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then those solutions then need to be

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artistic solutions as well so it's a

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very 5050 field we have an arts

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application but we have a sort of you

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know problem-solving approach and I

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think that's it's something that fits

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very well with the skeptical thing in

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excellent answer Thank You Ricky there's

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quite a bit of psychology involved as

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well and that was one of the things that

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came to mind when I was watching the two

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of you talking about your work when we

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were doing the skeptics own photo shoot

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which is where in fact we met how about

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we talk about the skeptics own photo

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shoot first and then I'll start asking

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you about the psychology behind

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marketing how did all of us meet I can

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answer that in one very dorky phrase

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weird kind of fan kids really Richard we

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have fans it finally worked it's not

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just me downloading the podcast half a

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dozen times in pumping up my school on

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iTunes there you go I've got evidence

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finally at some point we discovered that

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we can use the skills that we've got to

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meet people that we want to meet and so

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we've been doing it ever since hey

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that's been my goal ever since the

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beginning i'm going to tell you yeah

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yeah I think I think we're wife and kids

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we really desperately we're very

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passionate about skepticism where I

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guess that's inspired by how

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passionately angry we get when the

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pseudoscience takes over and people go

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down that path and but we just really

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wanted to be involved and we heard about

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you know skeptics on guys coming over

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and we just thought that we've got to do

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this and I mean I'm always a sucker for

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doing a hilarious theme to shoot you

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know thankfully my work I get paid for

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one thing enough to go in

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to work at the same time where I'm not

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getting paid as long as I'm producing

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photos I don't really care and we just

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thought we could have a bit of fun not

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take it all too seriously come up with

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some ideas and it was a really great day

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and I think the photos turned out pretty

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good there are still a few that I

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haven't done the post-production on so I

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think he'll knock them out in the

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not-too-distant future really I'm ready

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for the next convention happy I'd

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absolutely i can't wait we're busting to

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go so just for those people who might

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not have seen these photos they are on

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facebook we did have links to them on

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the skeptics own website and there's

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even a behind-the-scenes video with me

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running around like a nutter with my

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camera getting Richard playing George

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rub songs all the way through the photo

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shoot what was involved um well the

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ideas that we settled on we had quite a

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lot of ideas but i think it was really

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constrained by the time we had with them

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because they were you know flying over

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from sydney and stuff so ill as well

271
00:11:51,290 --> 00:11:48,780
which terrible make him do all kinds of

272
00:11:53,720 --> 00:11:51,300
things yeah we make me to do all kinds

273
00:11:56,360 --> 00:11:53,730
don't feel guilty he does even sick

274
00:11:58,730 --> 00:11:56,370
don't you he was a trooper so I mean

275
00:12:03,350 --> 00:11:58,740
Richard's thing he loves bending his

276
00:12:07,190 --> 00:12:03,360
spoons and I enjoy the uri geller saga

277
00:12:09,230 --> 00:12:07,200
the legacy let's call it so we got a

278
00:12:12,140 --> 00:12:09,240
picture of I guess Richard being

279
00:12:14,150 --> 00:12:12,150
frustrated trying to eat soap and every

280
00:12:16,310 --> 00:12:14,160
time he picks up a spoon and takes a

281
00:12:18,530 --> 00:12:16,320
scoop of soup he spills it down his

282
00:12:22,220 --> 00:12:18,540
front because it magically bends in his

283
00:12:25,870 --> 00:12:22,230
are in his magical magical hands and uh

284
00:12:28,850 --> 00:12:25,880
we got dr. Richie in a tarot reading

285
00:12:31,190 --> 00:12:28,860
situation holding up a dollar sign card

286
00:12:34,010 --> 00:12:31,200
which i thought was looking into a

287
00:12:36,050 --> 00:12:34,020
crystal ball and staring deep into your

288
00:12:38,950 --> 00:12:36,060
soul and do you remember the name that

289
00:12:42,590 --> 00:12:38,960
we ended up giving her madam nom nom yes

290
00:12:44,600 --> 00:12:42,600
absolutely inspired I thought we've got

291
00:12:46,760 --> 00:12:44,610
some great ear candle ones which will

292
00:12:50,450 --> 00:12:46,770
come up soon and we've also got a

293
00:12:53,390 --> 00:12:50,460
levitation one with a cactus featuring

294
00:12:54,950 --> 00:12:53,400
prominently so yeah we're you know

295
00:12:58,130 --> 00:12:54,960
taking on the basic sort of

296
00:12:59,990 --> 00:12:58,140
stereotypical you know pseudo-sciences

297
00:13:01,250 --> 00:13:00,000
ear candles is always you know a

298
00:13:03,410 --> 00:13:01,260
favorite something I'd

299
00:13:07,250 --> 00:13:03,420
up to people when they ask water skeptic

300
00:13:10,460 --> 00:13:07,260
is and the levitation is a sight gag

301
00:13:12,200 --> 00:13:10,470
really you can't really go wrong with

302
00:13:15,290 --> 00:13:12,210
the psyche in Kenya no just keep it

303
00:13:17,600 --> 00:13:15,300
simple stupid really so back on the

304
00:13:19,610 --> 00:13:17,610
psychology behind it we end up

305
00:13:22,460 --> 00:13:19,620
challenging these things through the

306
00:13:23,930 --> 00:13:22,470
photos that you've taken what are some

307
00:13:26,210 --> 00:13:23,940
of the things that you think should be

308
00:13:28,820 --> 00:13:26,220
more challenged out there particularly

309
00:13:29,810 --> 00:13:28,830
mark about everything yeah what are some

310
00:13:31,670 --> 00:13:29,820
of the things that you have come across

311
00:13:33,470 --> 00:13:31,680
perhaps in your careers that have made

312
00:13:35,270 --> 00:13:33,480
you stop and think I'm part of an

313
00:13:36,830 --> 00:13:35,280
industry that that is helping promote

314
00:13:44,450 --> 00:13:36,840
these sort of thing I mean you mentioned

315
00:13:47,450 --> 00:13:44,460
anger already oh I do get angry but I I

316
00:13:49,910 --> 00:13:47,460
guess I get as best to explain it i get

317
00:13:51,950 --> 00:13:49,920
i get frustrated that they're there are

318
00:13:53,840 --> 00:13:51,960
people in this world who who don't think

319
00:13:56,420 --> 00:13:53,850
critically who accept everything on face

320
00:13:58,970 --> 00:13:56,430
value and I guess you wouldn't you

321
00:14:01,760 --> 00:13:58,980
wouldn't really blame it on advertising

322
00:14:03,530 --> 00:14:01,770
as such you blame it on these products

323
00:14:04,940 --> 00:14:03,540
are designed from the get-go by the

324
00:14:07,460 --> 00:14:04,950
people who are making the money out of

325
00:14:09,890 --> 00:14:07,470
them to take advantage of people who

326
00:14:12,500 --> 00:14:09,900
don't who simply don't question it and I

327
00:14:14,240 --> 00:14:12,510
find that if you bring up you know if

328
00:14:17,660 --> 00:14:14,250
you just ask people what they understand

329
00:14:19,880 --> 00:14:17,670
about how things work and confront them

330
00:14:22,100 --> 00:14:19,890
with that not not give them any facts

331
00:14:23,600 --> 00:14:22,110
just ask them what they know and whether

332
00:14:25,610 --> 00:14:23,610
they're happy with what they know about

333
00:14:28,400 --> 00:14:25,620
that product informing them enough to

334
00:14:30,050 --> 00:14:28,410
spend their hard-earned dollars then

335
00:14:32,450 --> 00:14:30,060
generally they actually find their own

336
00:14:35,690 --> 00:14:32,460
way to disprove in whatever they're

337
00:14:37,490 --> 00:14:35,700
being sold but I just find it so

338
00:14:40,190 --> 00:14:37,500
frustrating that there are these these

339
00:14:44,060 --> 00:14:40,200
leeches out there and I'm sure they must

340
00:14:46,160 --> 00:14:44,070
know that what they're selling is you

341
00:14:49,130 --> 00:14:46,170
know a snake oil but it's done in my

342
00:14:51,770 --> 00:14:49,140
current one is um rapid detox you know

343
00:14:53,660 --> 00:14:51,780
complete and there's no there's

344
00:14:57,220 --> 00:14:53,670
no two ways about it there's no there's

345
00:15:00,950 --> 00:14:57,230
no basis to understand it at all yeah

346
00:15:02,540 --> 00:15:00,960
but I don't think I personally have

347
00:15:05,270 --> 00:15:02,550
never really come across something that

348
00:15:07,250 --> 00:15:05,280
I've had a problem with selling as such

349
00:15:09,080 --> 00:15:07,260
I know people who have I know it's an

350
00:15:11,240 --> 00:15:09,090
industry where depending on who your

351
00:15:13,370 --> 00:15:11,250
boss is of course you don't have to work

352
00:15:14,750 --> 00:15:13,380
on things if you don't want to but

353
00:15:18,050 --> 00:15:14,760
there's always going to be someone who

354
00:15:19,880 --> 00:15:18,060
well and I think people public generally

355
00:15:21,470 --> 00:15:19,890
approach advertising with a little bit

356
00:15:23,420 --> 00:15:21,480
of skepticism even if they don't realize

357
00:15:25,220 --> 00:15:23,430
they're doing it we can also have cases

358
00:15:27,590 --> 00:15:25,230
and we discussed this briefly earlier

359
00:15:29,570 --> 00:15:27,600
before the interview where due to

360
00:15:31,130 --> 00:15:29,580
marketing a label might be applied to

361
00:15:33,710 --> 00:15:31,140
something which appeals to popular

362
00:15:35,930 --> 00:15:33,720
belief say New Age practices and yet the

363
00:15:38,420 --> 00:15:35,940
product itself is fairly benign well I

364
00:15:41,380 --> 00:15:38,430
think the best example of that is feng

365
00:15:44,540 --> 00:15:41,390
shui and obviously it's a crazy

366
00:15:46,790 --> 00:15:44,550
spiritual sect type pseudoscience but

367
00:15:49,400 --> 00:15:46,800
from an architectural point of view

368
00:15:54,610 --> 00:15:49,410
which is my background it's fantastic

369
00:15:59,000 --> 00:15:54,620
because if you remove the Spiritualist

370
00:16:02,170 --> 00:15:59,010
hoo-ha element of it it's just a basic

371
00:16:04,070 --> 00:16:02,180
set of really good common-sense rules

372
00:16:07,130 --> 00:16:04,080
for example I'll give you a couple of

373
00:16:09,380 --> 00:16:07,140
examples if you there's a rule that says

374
00:16:11,240 --> 00:16:09,390
don't be able to see out the back door

375
00:16:13,250 --> 00:16:11,250
of your house as soon as you walk in the

376
00:16:15,380 --> 00:16:13,260
front door of your house because the

377
00:16:16,490 --> 00:16:15,390
spiritual energy will drain out you

378
00:16:18,290 --> 00:16:16,500
won't be able to contain it but

379
00:16:20,930 --> 00:16:18,300
basically it just makes your house feel

380
00:16:23,060 --> 00:16:20,940
small so if you follow that rule you

381
00:16:24,680 --> 00:16:23,070
have a more interesting space in which

382
00:16:26,810 --> 00:16:24,690
to live the the other one and my

383
00:16:30,050 --> 00:16:26,820
favorite one is when you're designing a

384
00:16:32,510 --> 00:16:30,060
shop which I have done and I took this

385
00:16:34,880 --> 00:16:32,520
into account the first thing that you

386
00:16:36,770 --> 00:16:34,890
see and understand when you walk into

387
00:16:39,230 --> 00:16:36,780
that shop is the point at which you pay

388
00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:39,240
because if you walk into a shop and you

389
00:16:42,410 --> 00:16:41,010
don't cry not what's going on and you

390
00:16:43,310 --> 00:16:42,420
don't know how it works and you don't

391
00:16:44,750 --> 00:16:43,320
know where you're going to pay at the

392
00:16:46,250 --> 00:16:44,760
end you get confused and you get

393
00:16:48,200 --> 00:16:46,260
stressed and you're less likely to buy

394
00:16:49,670 --> 00:16:48,210
something I mean I know I've been in

395
00:16:50,870 --> 00:16:49,680
shops where I haven't quite known how

396
00:16:52,430 --> 00:16:50,880
it's worked and I've ended up just

397
00:16:54,830 --> 00:16:52,440
walking out not buying anything whereas

398
00:16:56,300 --> 00:16:54,840
if I understood straight away where I

399
00:16:58,280 --> 00:16:56,310
have to pay when i'm leaving i'm

400
00:17:00,200 --> 00:16:58,290
comfortable in my shopping experience

401
00:17:03,490 --> 00:17:00,210
and it's just a really basic rule

402
00:17:06,829 --> 00:17:03,500
they've just tacked a lot of bizarre

403
00:17:08,810 --> 00:17:06,839
pseudoscience and spiritualism onto it

404
00:17:11,960 --> 00:17:08,820
it's just a really good set of sensible

405
00:17:13,490 --> 00:17:11,970
ideas but if you just call them sensible

406
00:17:14,540 --> 00:17:13,500
ideas no one will be interested because

407
00:17:16,189 --> 00:17:14,550
everybody thinks they're already

408
00:17:18,410 --> 00:17:16,199
sensible so are their standards and

409
00:17:19,939 --> 00:17:18,420
ethics which do apply to these things

410
00:17:22,670 --> 00:17:19,949
are there certain points that a

411
00:17:25,579 --> 00:17:22,680
advertising agency will say no we cannot

412
00:17:26,900 --> 00:17:25,589
do this of course yeah absolutely I

413
00:17:28,039 --> 00:17:26,910
think it depends on the different

414
00:17:29,899 --> 00:17:28,049
agencies

415
00:17:31,609 --> 00:17:29,909
but there are standards which everybody

416
00:17:34,039 --> 00:17:31,619
has to adhere to of course especially

417
00:17:36,649 --> 00:17:34,049
here in Perth I don't really see many

418
00:17:38,690 --> 00:17:36,659
problems at that nature yeah all right

419
00:17:42,710 --> 00:17:38,700
there are legal implications as well I

420
00:17:43,850 --> 00:17:42,720
think someone was and I have to do a bit

421
00:17:46,970 --> 00:17:43,860
more research about this because I don't

422
00:17:50,239 --> 00:17:46,980
know how true it is but I'm the the

423
00:17:53,239 --> 00:17:50,249
detox type companies are actually being

424
00:17:55,700 --> 00:17:53,249
prosecuted and there are actually being

425
00:17:58,129 --> 00:17:55,710
prosecutions as far as I've heard but

426
00:18:00,259 --> 00:17:58,139
they make so much money that you

427
00:18:02,450 --> 00:18:00,269
basically take that into account and

428
00:18:04,249 --> 00:18:02,460
they still make money despite the

429
00:18:08,119 --> 00:18:04,259
prosecutions yeah that was that was very

430
00:18:11,379 --> 00:18:08,129
allegedly you know where some of these

431
00:18:13,129 --> 00:18:11,389
companies can make so much money that

432
00:18:14,599 --> 00:18:13,139
even if they get a

433
00:18:16,970 --> 00:18:14,609
hundred-thousand-dollar fine slapped on

434
00:18:19,009 --> 00:18:16,980
them they're still it's in their budget

435
00:18:20,389 --> 00:18:19,019
go from the beginning they just work it

436
00:18:23,749 --> 00:18:20,399
into their budgeting and into their

437
00:18:25,820 --> 00:18:23,759
accounting it's it's it's it's the

438
00:18:27,979 --> 00:18:25,830
companies that that are coming up with

439
00:18:31,279 --> 00:18:27,989
these products that are really the moral

440
00:18:33,560 --> 00:18:31,289
less ones hmm and it's in the wording as

441
00:18:36,349 --> 00:18:33,570
well we ought to use the word allegedly

442
00:18:38,979 --> 00:18:36,359
for example so have you seen the use of

443
00:18:41,659 --> 00:18:38,989
weasel words in in advertising

444
00:18:43,519 --> 00:18:41,669
absolutely i mean but i think i think

445
00:18:44,960 --> 00:18:43,529
there is there is a certain what Ricky

446
00:18:47,330 --> 00:18:44,970
said before there is a certain amount of

447
00:18:48,950 --> 00:18:47,340
natural skepticism that people have

448
00:18:51,710 --> 00:18:48,960
towards advertising and I think that's a

449
00:18:53,599 --> 00:18:51,720
really really healthy thing I think you

450
00:18:55,909 --> 00:18:53,609
know there's there's been a where that

451
00:18:57,619 --> 00:18:55,919
whether it's been based on the atrocious

452
00:19:00,019 --> 00:18:57,629
programs like a Current Affair and all

453
00:19:03,560 --> 00:19:00,029
that sort of thing which which allegedly

454
00:19:05,180 --> 00:19:03,570
allegedly you know whether it's based on

455
00:19:08,060 --> 00:19:05,190
that sort of thing or not there is a

456
00:19:11,359 --> 00:19:08,070
natural level of skepticism in there out

457
00:19:14,450 --> 00:19:11,369
there and I do think most people in the

458
00:19:16,669 --> 00:19:14,460
ad industry are generally just given a

459
00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:16,679
brief and do their best to sell it

460
00:19:21,590 --> 00:19:18,090
there's not a lot of malice there is

461
00:19:23,869 --> 00:19:21,600
there is a small group of I guess highly

462
00:19:26,479 --> 00:19:23,879
paid people who you know which they'll

463
00:19:28,369 --> 00:19:26,489
be in any industry most of these people

464
00:19:30,049 --> 00:19:28,379
do their own advertising speaking of

465
00:19:31,909 --> 00:19:30,059
advertising how could scepticism better

466
00:19:33,440 --> 00:19:31,919
advertise itself do you two ever come up

467
00:19:36,080 --> 00:19:33,450
with ideas that you think to yourself oh

468
00:19:38,119 --> 00:19:36,090
if they could try this or maybe use this

469
00:19:40,249 --> 00:19:38,129
particular slogan or if we had the

470
00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:40,259
opportunity and the budget we could do

471
00:19:46,260 --> 00:19:40,930
at

472
00:19:47,580 --> 00:19:46,270
one um and I guess from a personal

473
00:19:51,270 --> 00:19:47,590
background it's like trying to sell

474
00:19:54,510 --> 00:19:51,280
atheism it you're trying to sell a point

475
00:19:56,790 --> 00:19:54,520
of view essentially unless a way of life

476
00:19:58,980 --> 00:19:56,800
and unless you have a product or a

477
00:20:01,200 --> 00:19:58,990
church churches are trying to get bums

478
00:20:02,820 --> 00:20:01,210
on seats you know and we're not trying

479
00:20:05,130 --> 00:20:02,830
to get bums on seats we're not got

480
00:20:09,410 --> 00:20:05,140
anything particular to sell we're trying

481
00:20:11,820 --> 00:20:09,420
to tell people to think critically about

482
00:20:16,220 --> 00:20:11,830
everything that's in front of them every

483
00:20:18,180 --> 00:20:16,230
day I think that where I say where

484
00:20:20,220 --> 00:20:18,190
that's the interesting thing is there a

485
00:20:22,560 --> 00:20:20,230
skeptical community at they I mean Ricky

486
00:20:25,170 --> 00:20:22,570
we've got Tom sitting here with a shirt

487
00:20:26,490 --> 00:20:25,180
that Ricky has designed the skeptics

488
00:20:28,680 --> 00:20:26,500
guide to the universe shirt so if people

489
00:20:30,090 --> 00:20:28,690
have bought that shirt we're sitting

490
00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:30,100
here with the woman who has designed it

491
00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:34,210
as I said before I think I guess SGU a

492
00:20:38,610 --> 00:20:36,970
great example you know I was reading

493
00:20:41,540 --> 00:20:38,620
today that they have sixty thousand

494
00:20:44,100 --> 00:20:41,550
subscribers for every episode which is

495
00:20:45,810 --> 00:20:44,110
extraordinary I mean in the context of

496
00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:45,820
six billion people in the world okay

497
00:20:53,550 --> 00:20:48,610
it's not a lot but it's 60,000 people

498
00:20:55,260 --> 00:20:53,560
and what you need in I guess a movement

499
00:21:00,380 --> 00:20:55,270
like skepticism is not necessarily a

500
00:21:05,030 --> 00:21:00,390
campaign it it's it's grassroots it's

501
00:21:09,480 --> 00:21:05,040
viral and it's media coverage if you

502
00:21:12,960 --> 00:21:09,490
make it the done thing to be skeptical

503
00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:12,970
to have a point of view that is critical

504
00:21:18,750 --> 00:21:15,610
not pointlessly critical but logically

505
00:21:20,490 --> 00:21:18,760
critical of everything that is then put

506
00:21:24,120 --> 00:21:20,500
in in front of them which is it is what

507
00:21:26,190 --> 00:21:24,130
the Daily News should be but isn't then

508
00:21:27,960 --> 00:21:26,200
you know it becomes part of the way we

509
00:21:29,460 --> 00:21:27,970
work and I think if they're in these

510
00:21:31,620 --> 00:21:29,470
things they're always could be a you

511
00:21:33,060 --> 00:21:31,630
reeka moment you know and I think that

512
00:21:35,670 --> 00:21:33,070
you know there'll be a phrase that will

513
00:21:38,250 --> 00:21:35,680
come up one day and and I think to bring

514
00:21:41,040 --> 00:21:38,260
skepticism in a positive direction you

515
00:21:42,900 --> 00:21:41,050
know using words that describe it in a

516
00:21:44,730 --> 00:21:42,910
positive way are the example of we were

517
00:21:46,650 --> 00:21:44,740
speaking of earlier is alternative

518
00:21:49,230 --> 00:21:46,660
medicine everybody wants an alternative

519
00:21:51,270 --> 00:21:49,240
and everybody wants medicine so people

520
00:21:53,730 --> 00:21:51,280
don't question what that actually means

521
00:21:56,340 --> 00:21:53,740
because it's such a Weasley phrase

522
00:21:58,860 --> 00:21:56,350
you know and but it's brilliant we can

523
00:22:02,010 --> 00:21:58,870
take so many lessons from the

524
00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:02,020
pseudoscience industries from the crazy

525
00:22:08,730 --> 00:22:06,250
religious side of things of just looking

526
00:22:11,280 --> 00:22:08,740
at them and understanding how they got

527
00:22:13,620 --> 00:22:11,290
so popular how they got so big why

528
00:22:16,169 --> 00:22:13,630
people initially become interested in

529
00:22:19,740 --> 00:22:16,179
them when they're full of falsehood and

530
00:22:21,930 --> 00:22:19,750
stupidity I think alternative medicine

531
00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:21,940
is just one of the cleverest phrases

532
00:22:28,440 --> 00:22:24,250
there is a route unfortunately it's on

533
00:22:31,980 --> 00:22:28,450
the wrong side but you know if we can

534
00:22:34,500 --> 00:22:31,990
all keep our ears pricked keep thinking

535
00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:34,510
about it then those phrases will come to

536
00:22:39,030 --> 00:22:36,730
us as well and we can put them out there

537
00:22:40,620 --> 00:22:39,040
in the media when we have the chance to

538
00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:40,630
use them out there in the media just

539
00:22:46,049 --> 00:22:42,250
like alternative medicine use that

540
00:22:48,690 --> 00:22:46,059
phrase at every given opportunity then

541
00:22:51,360 --> 00:22:48,700
yeah there will be a swing towards logic

542
00:22:55,169 --> 00:22:51,370
then the pseudoscience industry uses

543
00:22:58,230 --> 00:22:55,179
celebrity really well um someone like

544
00:23:01,890 --> 00:22:58,240
Jenny McCarthy Oh Jim Carrey you know

545
00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:01,900
not get it not getting paid for these

546
00:23:06,930 --> 00:23:03,610
things but they believe it and they go

547
00:23:09,030 --> 00:23:06,940
out and dispels it the public um I think

548
00:23:11,460 --> 00:23:09,040
we could really get some people on board

549
00:23:13,950 --> 00:23:11,470
who were really charismatic and believe

550
00:23:17,430 --> 00:23:13,960
our point of view to get out there a lot

551
00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:17,440
more like was it um Amanda Peet yes yes

552
00:23:20,850 --> 00:23:19,330
the actress Amanda Peet who was speaking

553
00:23:22,380 --> 00:23:20,860
out against Jenny McCarthy we have

554
00:23:24,660 --> 00:23:22,390
people like the Mythbusters as well if

555
00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:24,670
you don't have many great job and I

556
00:23:28,350 --> 00:23:26,410
think more people like that need to feel

557
00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:28,360
like they're able to step up and say

558
00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:29,770
what they believe in especially

559
00:23:33,690 --> 00:23:30,970
somewhere in America and not be afraid

560
00:23:35,700 --> 00:23:33,700
of it yeah I mean Ricky laughs before

561
00:23:37,799 --> 00:23:35,710
because I pretended to vomit when Jenny

562
00:23:41,100 --> 00:23:37,809
McCarthy's name was mentioned and I

563
00:23:43,820 --> 00:23:41,110
think you know allegedly I think that

564
00:23:46,110 --> 00:23:43,830
you know skepticism has got some great

565
00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:46,120
figureheads but they're figureheads that

566
00:23:51,750 --> 00:23:49,330
turn certain people off I mean I adore

567
00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:51,760
Richard Dawkins but there's a certain

568
00:23:55,500 --> 00:23:53,410
you know there are large parts of the

569
00:23:57,600 --> 00:23:55,510
community who would probably find him

570
00:23:59,160 --> 00:23:57,610
very confronting and just would

571
00:24:01,680 --> 00:23:59,170
automatically not listen to anything he

572
00:24:04,290 --> 00:24:01,690
said yeah and the question of the day is

573
00:24:05,940 --> 00:24:04,300
out there were all the theists who want

574
00:24:06,770 --> 00:24:05,950
to be able to support critical thinking

575
00:24:09,380 --> 00:24:06,780
and

576
00:24:10,730 --> 00:24:09,390
yet will draw a line according to where

577
00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:10,740
their religious beliefs will be stepped

578
00:24:15,410 --> 00:24:12,810
on but don't want people to be defaulted

579
00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:15,420
by paranormalists or pseudo scientific

580
00:24:19,130 --> 00:24:17,610
claims and I would never speak against

581
00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:19,140
what Richard is doing because I think

582
00:24:25,190 --> 00:24:20,970
he's a genius I just think he's he's

583
00:24:29,090 --> 00:24:25,200
wonderful but as I as a figurehead he's

584
00:24:31,790 --> 00:24:29,100
not necessarily the most appealing type

585
00:24:34,070 --> 00:24:31,800
you know person and I think that I guess

586
00:24:36,830 --> 00:24:34,080
what it is especially with the freaking

587
00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:36,840
Jenny McCarthy's idiots like that you

588
00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:40,170
you get it's easy for them to get

589
00:24:44,090 --> 00:24:41,970
passionate it's easy to get passionate

590
00:24:46,310 --> 00:24:44,100
about because you can

591
00:24:48,170 --> 00:24:46,320
essentially back it up with whatever you

592
00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:48,180
want because it's not based on fact

593
00:24:53,870 --> 00:24:51,450
anyway emotion it's all emotion doing it

594
00:24:56,480 --> 00:24:53,880
for the kids and there's there's a an

595
00:25:00,680 --> 00:24:56,490
intentional in many cases disconnect

596
00:25:04,370 --> 00:25:00,690
between passion and science and I think

597
00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:04,380
people try to step back and remove

598
00:25:08,990 --> 00:25:06,770
passion from science because science

599
00:25:13,580 --> 00:25:09,000
essentially in its purest form can't be

600
00:25:14,930 --> 00:25:13,590
passionate it needs to be pure but I

601
00:25:16,310 --> 00:25:14,940
think and the Mythbusters are great

602
00:25:18,530 --> 00:25:16,320
because they get passionate about

603
00:25:21,500 --> 00:25:18,540
science and I think that that divide

604
00:25:24,020 --> 00:25:21,510
needs to happen where the scientists can

605
00:25:27,140 --> 00:25:24,030
stay dispassionate in the activity of

606
00:25:30,290 --> 00:25:27,150
science but we need to be I mean I get

607
00:25:32,900 --> 00:25:30,300
very excited about listening to science

608
00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:32,910
but I I'm not a scientist you know and

609
00:25:36,890 --> 00:25:34,650
and i think that's that's one of the

610
00:25:40,300 --> 00:25:36,900
reasons these celebrities do so well on

611
00:25:42,650 --> 00:25:40,310
the on the pseudoscience side of things

612
00:25:44,330 --> 00:25:42,660
you know I think something I was

613
00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:44,340
thinking earlier today was you know

614
00:25:50,210 --> 00:25:46,530
incorporating words into skepticism that

615
00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:50,220
are liberating and forward moving you

616
00:25:56,270 --> 00:25:53,970
know like truth and independence and all

617
00:25:57,500 --> 00:25:56,280
those sort of buzzwords that yeah there

618
00:25:59,540 --> 00:25:57,510
are buzz words but that's essentially

619
00:26:01,130 --> 00:25:59,550
what we do speaking of buzzwords tam

620
00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:01,140
Australia is going to become a buzzword

621
00:26:06,950 --> 00:26:05,610
aam is root root so what sort of things

622
00:26:08,990 --> 00:26:06,960
are you hoping to get passionate about

623
00:26:11,030 --> 00:26:09,000
in terms of town Australia we know that

624
00:26:14,390 --> 00:26:11,040
you two will be going got any big plans

625
00:26:18,300 --> 00:26:14,400
why should it oh I'll just drink with

626
00:26:21,180 --> 00:26:18,310
whoever I can really I mean I'd love to

627
00:26:23,130 --> 00:26:21,190
set up a photoshoot you know you hire

628
00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:23,140
out a studio over there get some themes

629
00:26:26,580 --> 00:26:24,490
going you know if there's anyone in

630
00:26:29,220 --> 00:26:26,590
Sydney who's in the production business

631
00:26:32,310 --> 00:26:29,230
or works in you know production side of

632
00:26:34,980 --> 00:26:32,320
photography or creative ideas or has it

633
00:26:37,050 --> 00:26:34,990
has a studio that we can use you know

634
00:26:38,580 --> 00:26:37,060
can source some props for us and we'll

635
00:26:41,190 --> 00:26:38,590
come up with some crazy ideas and do

636
00:26:42,510 --> 00:26:41,200
some crazy photo shoots what was the one

637
00:26:45,090 --> 00:26:42,520
I was thinking of today oh yeah you

638
00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:45,100
could do this was just popped into my

639
00:26:49,470 --> 00:26:47,770
head the Roswell reenact the Roswell

640
00:26:52,530 --> 00:26:49,480
thing and you can have all the skeptics

641
00:26:54,030 --> 00:26:52,540
standing around and are obviously health

642
00:26:57,810 --> 00:26:54,040
permitting James Randi could be the

643
00:26:59,280 --> 00:26:57,820
alien on the table and even later we get

644
00:27:01,500 --> 00:26:59,290
we'll Photoshop him in later if it's not

645
00:27:04,350 --> 00:27:01,510
there that's fine you know I just really

646
00:27:05,970 --> 00:27:04,360
taking it on being kind of humorous with

647
00:27:09,170 --> 00:27:05,980
it and giving people something that they

648
00:27:13,140 --> 00:27:09,180
can relate to it without being too

649
00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:13,150
elitist or confronting I guess I got so

650
00:27:18,150 --> 00:27:15,610
excited when I saw Evans little video

651
00:27:20,610 --> 00:27:18,160
that he made talking to me about my

652
00:27:22,950 --> 00:27:20,620
t-shirt on YouTube and picture of Jay

653
00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:22,960
wearing my t-shirt and I would just love

654
00:27:26,850 --> 00:27:24,610
to meet these guys and take photos with

655
00:27:28,820 --> 00:27:26,860
them be awesome and it looks like that

656
00:27:31,770 --> 00:27:28,830
opportunity will be indeed happening so

657
00:27:34,620 --> 00:27:31,780
congratulations congratulations it's a

658
00:27:35,970 --> 00:27:34,630
mom I'm very excited for everyone I'm

659
00:27:37,770 --> 00:27:35,980
really excited for you guys for being a

660
00:27:41,550 --> 00:27:37,780
part of it and thank you very much be

661
00:27:44,910 --> 00:27:41,560
talking to me anytime thanks Kylie thank

662
00:27:47,100 --> 00:27:44,920
you good you can head to Ricky in Toms

663
00:27:50,250 --> 00:27:47,110
websites to see more of their work Tom

664
00:27:53,370 --> 00:27:50,260
Perry's photography is at TP design com

665
00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:53,380
au and Ricky's work especially her great

666
00:27:59,070 --> 00:27:56,050
t-shirt designs can be found at Ricky

667
00:28:01,230 --> 00:27:59,080
b.net forthcoming news about Tam

668
00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:01,240
Australia will be eventually posted on

669
00:28:14,140 --> 00:28:03,090
the Australian skeptics website at

670
00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:17,480
you're listening to the skeptic zone I'm

671
00:28:23,180 --> 00:28:20,970
Brian Dunning from sceptile calm when

672
00:28:26,210 --> 00:28:23,190
I'm not tuned into the skeptic zone I'm

673
00:28:28,010 --> 00:28:26,220
recording thus kept I'd podcast doing

674
00:28:29,830 --> 00:28:28,020
what I can to further knowledge by

675
00:28:32,330 --> 00:28:29,840
blasting away the widespread

676
00:28:35,180 --> 00:28:32,340
pseudo-sciences that infect popular

677
00:28:37,250 --> 00:28:35,190
culture I've also compiled a 40-minute

678
00:28:40,490 --> 00:28:37,260
educational video on critical thinking

679
00:28:44,210 --> 00:28:40,500
called here be dragons at here be

680
00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:44,220
dragons movie.com I hope you check those

681
00:28:55,870 --> 00:28:47,250
out and I hope you enjoy the skeptic

682
00:29:00,110 --> 00:28:57,890
we'll have come down to darling harbour

683
00:29:03,350 --> 00:29:00,120
here in Sydney for the mind-body-spirit

684
00:29:06,710 --> 00:29:03,360
festival but as we call it of course the

685
00:29:08,060 --> 00:29:06,720
mind-body wallet going to be meeting up

686
00:29:10,310 --> 00:29:08,070
with some skeptics today we're going to

687
00:29:14,090 --> 00:29:10,320
be walking through whom possibly handing

688
00:29:17,180 --> 00:29:14,100
out skeptic challenge cards $100,000 if

689
00:29:21,860 --> 00:29:17,190
you can prove your honey claim and we'll

690
00:29:26,570 --> 00:29:24,920
it's mind-body wallet time once again

691
00:29:28,549 --> 00:29:26,580
i'm here with william get a William

692
00:29:30,290 --> 00:29:28,559
hello Richard are you going getting back

693
00:29:32,810 --> 00:29:30,300
on the show again William early i know

694
00:29:34,820 --> 00:29:32,820
i'm blocking the limelight it's terrible

695
00:29:37,130 --> 00:29:34,830
terrible and richard hi Richard get over

696
00:29:39,110 --> 00:29:37,140
to today and we're just waiting out to

697
00:29:41,060 --> 00:29:39,120
the front of the exhibition center here

698
00:29:44,380 --> 00:29:41,070
and looking through the window what can

699
00:29:46,850 --> 00:29:44,390
we see all sorts of sacred cleansing and

700
00:29:48,140 --> 00:29:46,860
Amazonia something rather can't wait to

701
00:29:49,850 --> 00:29:48,150
get in we're just waiting for a few more

702
00:29:52,070 --> 00:29:49,860
skeptics to turn up and we'll see what's

703
00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:52,080
in store first good old mind-body wallet

704
00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:54,090
it's great have you seen the people

705
00:29:57,080 --> 00:29:55,770
getting their teeth whitened here just

706
00:29:58,760 --> 00:29:57,090
through the other window these people

707
00:30:01,520 --> 00:29:58,770
lying down with that Mouse being zapped

708
00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:01,530
it's so lovely it is exhibitionist cycle

709
00:30:06,049 --> 00:30:04,410
them yeah but with a great smile for the

710
00:30:08,090 --> 00:30:06,059
beautiful smile and great simon cowell

711
00:30:10,070 --> 00:30:08,100
style teeth there you go but that's what

712
00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:10,080
they usually thing isn't it yeah yeah

713
00:30:13,940 --> 00:30:11,250
the thing is when you've got usually

714
00:30:15,620 --> 00:30:13,950
flashing in your teeth for about half an

715
00:30:20,770 --> 00:30:15,630
hour I mean if everything looks white

716
00:30:26,020 --> 00:30:23,740
I'll look who turned up hello Joan hello

717
00:30:27,850 --> 00:30:26,030
Richard skeptic zona joke Ben abou

718
00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:27,860
normally from the think tank of course

719
00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:30,770
and getting injections yes that's me are

720
00:30:34,690 --> 00:30:33,050
you still so standing still standing yes

721
00:30:39,130 --> 00:30:34,700
according I starting to feel a little

722
00:30:40,780 --> 00:30:39,140
bit out of sorts standing here in

723
00:30:42,610 --> 00:30:40,790
through the door waiting test we're

724
00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:42,620
going to be in for i know i think as

725
00:30:47,190 --> 00:30:45,130
richard BTW i'm starting to swish and

726
00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:47,200
hyperventilate as if you're doing that

727
00:30:58,070 --> 00:30:50,570
oh thank you thank you which let's go

728
00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:02,460
the bi-annual mind-body a wallet

729
00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:05,170
festival wrapped up on Sunday no doubt

730
00:31:09,990 --> 00:31:06,610
leaving in its wake a plethora of

731
00:31:11,700 --> 00:31:10,000
satisfied customers as usual I noted the

732
00:31:14,610 --> 00:31:11,710
dizzying array of lotions potions

733
00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:14,620
crystals and trinkets the tween of sea

734
00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:16,690
Tars and flutter of hands waving over

735
00:31:21,810 --> 00:31:18,730
those eager to have their chacras alone

736
00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:21,820
or meridians tweaked many of the usual

737
00:31:26,730 --> 00:31:24,570
suspects are their lifeblood analysis

738
00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:26,740
chiropractors assessing spinal alignment

739
00:31:31,710 --> 00:31:29,170
and of course a multitude of psychic

740
00:31:34,220 --> 00:31:31,720
readings even a man who does wax aren't

741
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:34,230
psychic greetings whatever that may be I

742
00:31:38,790 --> 00:31:36,490
turn a blind eye to the more innocuous

743
00:31:41,190 --> 00:31:38,800
offerings of these events but some

744
00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:41,200
scream for attention not just because of

745
00:31:45,150 --> 00:31:43,210
their outlandishness but because their

746
00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:45,160
leap over the boundaries of harmless

747
00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:48,850
kooky fun I was drawn to a stall

748
00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:51,090
representing a dental practice in Sydney

749
00:31:56,010 --> 00:31:53,890
amongst other things they remove mercury

750
00:31:58,620 --> 00:31:56,020
amalgams claiming they cause mercury

751
00:32:01,590 --> 00:31:58,630
toxicity they recommend collation

752
00:32:03,690 --> 00:32:01,600
therapy to detoxify and refer to dental

753
00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:03,700
interference fields which seems to be

754
00:32:08,310 --> 00:32:06,490
like reflexology for teeth suffice to

755
00:32:10,140 --> 00:32:08,320
say that a little prodding for further

756
00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:10,150
information and the evidence for what

757
00:32:14,700 --> 00:32:12,610
they do resulted in my being verbally

758
00:32:18,210 --> 00:32:14,710
evicted from the store to the repeated

759
00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:18,220
cries of mercury's and neurotoxin from

760
00:32:23,070 --> 00:32:21,130
the woman running stall I spun around to

761
00:32:25,290 --> 00:32:23,080
see Australian skeptics Vice President

762
00:32:27,870 --> 00:32:25,300
Richard Saunders chatting to an amiable

763
00:32:30,540 --> 00:32:27,880
looking woman at the straw opposite she

764
00:32:32,700 --> 00:32:30,550
animatedly described how by waving her

765
00:32:34,860 --> 00:32:32,710
hands over your body she can heal what

766
00:32:37,650 --> 00:32:34,870
ails you how does this incredible

767
00:32:40,290 --> 00:32:37,660
technique work we asked they claim it

768
00:32:43,710 --> 00:32:40,300
goes beyond every other energy healing

769
00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:43,720
technique we have become disconnected

770
00:32:48,060 --> 00:32:45,850
from the meridian lines which used to

771
00:32:50,670 --> 00:32:48,070
connect us to the entire universe say

772
00:32:53,670 --> 00:32:50,680
the brochures we connect two unique

773
00:32:55,620 --> 00:32:53,680
vibratory levels and frequencies causing

774
00:32:58,160 --> 00:32:55,630
a reconnection of DNA strands and

775
00:33:00,390 --> 00:32:58,170
reintegration strings it continues oh

776
00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:00,400
hell just go and watch that woman on

777
00:33:03,740 --> 00:33:01,810
YouTube explain the physics of

778
00:33:06,990 --> 00:33:03,750
homeopathy and you've got the picture

779
00:33:09,890 --> 00:33:07,000
they claim healings for cancer paralysis

780
00:33:12,080 --> 00:33:09,900
bone fractures diabetes and more

781
00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:12,090
astounded at why they don't have a Nobel

782
00:33:16,370 --> 00:33:14,130
Prize for their incredible contribution

783
00:33:19,550 --> 00:33:16,380
to science we asked to see the published

784
00:33:23,270 --> 00:33:19,560
research oh it's all in Russian journals

785
00:33:24,950 --> 00:33:23,280
it's being translated we offered the

786
00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:24,960
Australian skeptics hundred thousand

787
00:33:29,570 --> 00:33:27,330
dollar challenge we explained a simple

788
00:33:32,930 --> 00:33:29,580
test was all that was needed they were

789
00:33:35,720 --> 00:33:32,940
open to the idea her fellow healer asked

790
00:33:38,060 --> 00:33:35,730
why do a simple test for such a complex

791
00:33:41,140 --> 00:33:38,070
thing you should do a very complicated

792
00:33:44,990 --> 00:33:41,150
test I looked at Richard despairingly

793
00:33:47,270 --> 00:33:45,000
removed on another stall was selling

794
00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:47,280
something called transfer factors which

795
00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:48,810
they claim will improve your immune

796
00:33:53,750 --> 00:33:50,730
system by four hundred and thirty-seven

797
00:33:56,300 --> 00:33:53,760
percent such a precise claim must be

798
00:33:57,680 --> 00:33:56,310
backed by data I thought never mind that

799
00:34:00,380 --> 00:33:57,690
boosting your immune system is a

800
00:34:02,330 --> 00:34:00,390
meaningless marketing term transfer

801
00:34:05,030 --> 00:34:02,340
factors they claim help the immune

802
00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:05,040
system recognize harmful elements change

803
00:34:09,830 --> 00:34:06,450
the immune response to suit the occasion

804
00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:09,840
and support immune memory all things

805
00:34:13,730 --> 00:34:11,490
which the immune system is capable of

806
00:34:14,990 --> 00:34:13,740
doing perfectly well on its own unless

807
00:34:18,649 --> 00:34:15,000
of course your immune system is

808
00:34:20,720 --> 00:34:18,659
suppressed by HIV or leukemia our immune

809
00:34:23,380 --> 00:34:20,730
system is incapable of responding to the

810
00:34:25,940 --> 00:34:23,390
challenges of everyday living they say I

811
00:34:28,399 --> 00:34:25,950
challenged them on these claims and they

812
00:34:30,909 --> 00:34:28,409
asked if I was a doctor I told them I

813
00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:30,919
was a nurse to which they said so are we

814
00:34:35,810 --> 00:34:33,290
they told me the doctors will prescribe

815
00:34:39,139 --> 00:34:35,820
chemotherapy for patients but will not

816
00:34:41,030 --> 00:34:39,149
take it themselves interestingly I

817
00:34:43,070 --> 00:34:41,040
discovered that this product has been

818
00:34:45,710 --> 00:34:43,080
used in a bizarre combined measles

819
00:34:48,590 --> 00:34:45,720
vaccine autism cure which andrew

820
00:34:51,830 --> 00:34:48,600
wakefield here of the great MMR autism

821
00:34:54,409 --> 00:34:51,840
debacle apparently represented the best

822
00:34:57,350 --> 00:34:54,419
the nurses they then claimed that the

823
00:34:59,930 --> 00:34:57,360
h1n1 vaccine was tainted and poisonous

824
00:35:02,150 --> 00:34:59,940
and that manufacturers knowingly allowed

825
00:35:03,830 --> 00:35:02,160
it to be used on the public when

826
00:35:06,350 --> 00:35:03,840
challenged they responded with tied

827
00:35:08,630 --> 00:35:06,360
claims about big farmer and big money as

828
00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:08,640
we continue they became more and more

829
00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:12,810
hostile to our questions so once again I

830
00:35:16,700 --> 00:35:14,610
came away from the mind/body wallet

831
00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:16,710
festival troubled by what I saw being

832
00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:19,170
peddled to the public the New South

833
00:35:22,579 --> 00:35:20,850
Wales health department's code of

834
00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:22,589
conduct for unregistered health

835
00:35:27,859 --> 00:35:24,690
petitioners was published in September

836
00:35:30,289 --> 00:35:27,869
2008 and states that a health care

837
00:35:32,509 --> 00:35:30,299
practitioner must display a copy at all

838
00:35:35,209 --> 00:35:32,519
premises where the practitioner carries

839
00:35:38,479 --> 00:35:35,219
on his or her practice I did not see a

840
00:35:41,749 --> 00:35:38,489
single one on display where are the

841
00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:41,759
authorities I asked myself how is it

842
00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:43,650
that these people can continue to

843
00:35:48,380 --> 00:35:46,410
promote and sell unproven disproven or

844
00:35:51,620 --> 00:35:48,390
potentially harmful products and

845
00:35:54,890 --> 00:35:51,630
therapies how is it that a man can claim

846
00:35:56,959 --> 00:35:54,900
to be able to heal cancer and HIV or

847
00:36:00,410 --> 00:35:56,969
sell pendants which can turn water into

848
00:36:02,239 --> 00:36:00,420
sunscreen how can a dentist needlessly

849
00:36:04,339 --> 00:36:02,249
remove fillings from people's teeth and

850
00:36:08,089 --> 00:36:04,349
subject them to a potentially dangerous

851
00:36:10,099 --> 00:36:08,099
and unnecessary intervention how can

852
00:36:11,749 --> 00:36:10,109
these same individuals not be held

853
00:36:14,989 --> 00:36:11,759
accountable by the authorities for

854
00:36:17,059 --> 00:36:14,999
deceiving vulnerable people I fear that

855
00:36:27,299 --> 00:36:17,069
on my next visit to the festival in six

856
00:36:31,839 --> 00:36:30,549
anyway Richard and Joey William left us

857
00:36:34,049 --> 00:36:31,849
a little while ago we're finished with

858
00:36:36,969 --> 00:36:34,059
the main body one for this six months

859
00:36:40,089 --> 00:36:36,979
Joe you've still got yourself together

860
00:36:42,189 --> 00:36:40,099
somehow I don't know how I i I'm still

861
00:36:44,799 --> 00:36:42,199
rather composed I've had a few moments

862
00:36:48,370 --> 00:36:44,809
of almost collapsing into a heap of

863
00:36:51,309 --> 00:36:48,380
madness but I survived well yeah we had

864
00:36:53,739 --> 00:36:51,319
some fun with the the guy with his magic

865
00:36:55,989 --> 00:36:53,749
herbs that your cancer cells were done

866
00:36:58,029 --> 00:36:55,999
best known cure cancer yes we remember

867
00:37:01,749 --> 00:36:58,039
him from last year I'm sure dr. Rachel

868
00:37:04,209 --> 00:37:01,759
will remember him and last year he had

869
00:37:06,189 --> 00:37:04,219
some interesting ideas I remember last

870
00:37:08,169 --> 00:37:06,199
year he wanted to sell his magic potions

871
00:37:10,989 --> 00:37:08,179
for several thousand dollars but

872
00:37:13,779 --> 00:37:10,999
interestingly this year he was saying

873
00:37:16,649 --> 00:37:13,789
that you you comin by an individual

874
00:37:19,359 --> 00:37:16,659
bottle you have to buy all 12 well and

875
00:37:22,239 --> 00:37:19,369
see that money he was killed oh he was

876
00:37:25,329 --> 00:37:22,249
huge water 50s he was coming to a rather

877
00:37:28,149 --> 00:37:25,339
large roll of money and and when pressed

878
00:37:29,620 --> 00:37:28,159
on how his treatment worked he couldn't

879
00:37:32,140 --> 00:37:29,630
really tell us too much about anything

880
00:37:33,909 --> 00:37:32,150
that made any sense not at all in fact a

881
00:37:35,919 --> 00:37:33,919
lot of people in there today didn't make

882
00:37:37,419 --> 00:37:35,929
much sense at I know they think they

883
00:37:39,069 --> 00:37:37,429
make sense in their own heads but

884
00:37:42,399 --> 00:37:39,079
certainly didn't make much we were all

885
00:37:44,169 --> 00:37:42,409
born in pure light so no yes yeah there

886
00:37:46,779 --> 00:37:44,179
was a lot of pure light relevant and

887
00:37:48,999 --> 00:37:46,789
thus the winning one of the day although

888
00:37:51,009 --> 00:37:49,009
it was stiff competition was the guy who

889
00:37:52,179 --> 00:37:51,019
said that women are getting breast

890
00:37:54,219 --> 00:37:52,189
cancer because they sit in front of

891
00:37:56,739 --> 00:37:54,229
their computers with bras with underwire

892
00:37:58,390 --> 00:37:56,749
that's the one ever yeah we found in

893
00:37:59,890 --> 00:37:58,400
your conspiracy I'm a conspiracy and

894
00:38:01,959 --> 00:37:59,900
these light bulbs that have been given

895
00:38:03,549 --> 00:38:01,969
out the new energy-saving ones they're

896
00:38:05,890 --> 00:38:03,559
going to give us all what was it cancer

897
00:38:08,259 --> 00:38:05,900
Oh might as well but I might as well be

898
00:38:11,079 --> 00:38:08,269
naught is autumn rae autism rates have

899
00:38:14,370 --> 00:38:11,089
been going up 6060 thousand percent

900
00:38:17,430 --> 00:38:14,380
about 1940 and it's because of the

901
00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:17,440
mixology electricity that's right

902
00:38:21,750 --> 00:38:20,050
a somewhat dirty electricity is on I

903
00:38:24,660 --> 00:38:21,760
don't think that guy much of all he's

904
00:38:26,550 --> 00:38:24,670
really gone and we had the magic pendant

905
00:38:27,930 --> 00:38:26,560
of course and we both tried that Richard

906
00:38:29,220 --> 00:38:27,940
was very excited because he wanted to

907
00:38:30,930 --> 00:38:29,230
have a go through magic pendant last

908
00:38:34,079 --> 00:38:30,940
year and he finally did it this year

909
00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:34,089
yeah I need to discover that was the old

910
00:38:37,829 --> 00:38:35,890
kinesiology trick you hold out your hand

911
00:38:39,120 --> 00:38:37,839
and they push down then they give you

912
00:38:40,890 --> 00:38:39,130
the pendant may press down again they

913
00:38:43,380 --> 00:38:40,900
say look you're more powerful or less

914
00:38:45,210 --> 00:38:43,390
powerful there's simply press on it so

915
00:38:47,099 --> 00:38:45,220
we are we have people this year also

916
00:38:49,589 --> 00:38:47,109
telling us that we don't need to wear

917
00:38:51,569 --> 00:38:49,599
sunscreen yes magic water we can spray

918
00:38:53,010 --> 00:38:51,579
on our skin and accessories you see the

919
00:38:54,540 --> 00:38:53,020
same people as dependent if we're

920
00:38:56,520 --> 00:38:54,550
dependent that you know how that worked

921
00:38:58,620 --> 00:38:56,530
you put dependent under a bottle of

922
00:39:00,240 --> 00:38:58,630
water for 10 minutes then you put that

923
00:39:03,089 --> 00:39:00,250
on yourself instead of sunscreens right

924
00:39:06,990 --> 00:39:03,099
and folks I actually gave them the

925
00:39:09,809 --> 00:39:07,000
lecture but in the meantime and I say

926
00:39:12,450 --> 00:39:09,819
this motion silly I would be most

927
00:39:14,280 --> 00:39:12,460
hesitant indeed about telling people to

928
00:39:16,500 --> 00:39:14,290
use the aur-magic water instead of sun

929
00:39:19,559 --> 00:39:16,510
block that could lead to melanoma all

930
00:39:22,380 --> 00:39:19,569
right i am telling you as a favor and as

931
00:39:24,870 --> 00:39:22,390
a concerned person to society magic

932
00:39:28,410 --> 00:39:24,880
water is no substitute for sun block you

933
00:39:30,359 --> 00:39:28,420
must understand that all right okay

934
00:39:32,940 --> 00:39:30,369
that's my advice you keep doing it

935
00:39:35,609 --> 00:39:32,950
yourself don't advise people to use

936
00:39:37,530 --> 00:39:35,619
magic ordinance at a sunblock because

937
00:39:39,170 --> 00:39:37,540
you could get yourself sued by someone

938
00:39:45,520 --> 00:39:39,180
coming back with melanoma

939
00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:48,700
and this was actually someone who said

940
00:39:52,720 --> 00:39:51,530
that she she praised this water on her

941
00:39:55,510 --> 00:39:52,730
grandchild because she doesn't want to

942
00:39:57,100 --> 00:39:55,520
use the chemicals in the sunscreen so

943
00:39:59,290 --> 00:39:57,110
she's icky subjecting her her own

944
00:40:01,540 --> 00:39:59,300
grandchild to potentially harm well

945
00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:01,550
we've decided next year we in the six

946
00:40:05,200 --> 00:40:02,810
months time we really must come back

947
00:40:07,720 --> 00:40:05,210
here with a film crew and somebody from

948
00:40:10,030 --> 00:40:07,730
the a Triple C or the TGA or I don't

949
00:40:11,950 --> 00:40:10,040
know who biggest IRA there are claims in

950
00:40:13,750 --> 00:40:11,960
there with you oh absolutely and I think

951
00:40:15,820 --> 00:40:13,760
one of the things that I found so

952
00:40:20,500 --> 00:40:15,830
upsetting today was speaking to a couple

953
00:40:21,880 --> 00:40:20,510
of nurses who were claiming that people

954
00:40:24,940 --> 00:40:21,890
shouldn't be having chemotherapy for

955
00:40:27,310 --> 00:40:24,950
cancer who were offering all sorts of

956
00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:27,320
supplements for bursting people's immune

957
00:40:31,930 --> 00:40:29,210
system isn't it interesting they say

958
00:40:33,790 --> 00:40:31,940
don't use chemotherapy but use the stuff

959
00:40:35,110 --> 00:40:33,800
we happen to be selling the stuff we

960
00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:35,120
happen to be selling for which we can

961
00:40:39,430 --> 00:40:36,890
furnish no evidence that it actually

962
00:40:41,380 --> 00:40:39,440
does anything well that's mind-body

963
00:40:43,570 --> 00:40:41,390
wallet for your folks as I said before

964
00:40:45,700 --> 00:40:43,580
it's it's worth of ism it really is

965
00:40:47,350 --> 00:40:45,710
worth a visit and I would go so far as

966
00:40:49,990 --> 00:40:47,360
the saying that every medical student

967
00:40:52,840 --> 00:40:50,000
should come down and visit us it is it's

968
00:40:54,250 --> 00:40:52,850
an eye-opening experience and you can

969
00:40:56,470 --> 00:40:54,260
nom your way through it if you want you

970
00:40:58,930 --> 00:40:56,480
can actually remember some honey popcorn

971
00:41:01,030 --> 00:40:58,940
mmm-hmm I don't wish this until the next

972
00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:01,040
six months goodbye from mind-body wallet

973
00:41:17,520 --> 00:41:15,270
yo guys i was talking to Richard sonsie

974
00:41:19,800 --> 00:41:17,530
today all right he said if we record a

975
00:41:21,810 --> 00:41:19,810
trailer for our podcast skeptics with a

976
00:41:23,130 --> 00:41:21,820
que he'd play it on their own they're

977
00:41:24,420 --> 00:41:23,140
sure nice nice of him that's very

978
00:41:25,890 --> 00:41:24,430
generous it's pretty good i'm not sure

979
00:41:27,390 --> 00:41:25,900
what we could do though I mean well

980
00:41:29,760 --> 00:41:27,400
suppose you tell people all the shows

981
00:41:32,010 --> 00:41:29,770
about but it's basically this yeah but

982
00:41:33,660 --> 00:41:32,020
yeah but you know we talk about science

983
00:41:34,859 --> 00:41:33,670
and skepticism and things that's that's

984
00:41:36,810 --> 00:41:34,869
true as fuzzier you mentioned the

985
00:41:38,910 --> 00:41:36,820
website address what merseyside skeptics

986
00:41:40,530 --> 00:41:38,920
todo UK yeah yeah just like searches

987
00:41:42,990 --> 00:41:40,540
night UN's oh and then we could end with

988
00:41:49,670 --> 00:41:43,000
like a big song like the skeptics with

989
00:41:57,859 --> 00:41:53,040
now it's time for dr. ray chira ports

990
00:42:03,630 --> 00:42:00,630
hello everyone and welcome to dr. Xu

991
00:42:05,430 --> 00:42:03,640
reports this week I'm reporting to you

992
00:42:08,339 --> 00:42:05,440
from the International proteolysis

993
00:42:10,589 --> 00:42:08,349
society meeting held last week at

994
00:42:14,700 --> 00:42:10,599
Surfers Paradise in Queensland Australia

995
00:42:17,280 --> 00:42:14,710
as the name suggests this conference was

996
00:42:20,040 --> 00:42:17,290
about the breakdown of proteins in

997
00:42:22,589 --> 00:42:20,050
infectious diseases age-related diseases

998
00:42:25,170 --> 00:42:22,599
such as heart disease and many other

999
00:42:28,530 --> 00:42:25,180
pathologies I listen to lectures about

1000
00:42:32,910 --> 00:42:28,540
scabies chlamydia Alzheimer's disease

1001
00:42:34,140 --> 00:42:32,920
blood coagulation and influenza one of

1002
00:42:36,180 --> 00:42:34,150
the lectures that was particularly

1003
00:42:39,210 --> 00:42:36,190
interesting was about developing a

1004
00:42:41,880 --> 00:42:39,220
vaccine against hookworm infection dr.

1005
00:42:44,070 --> 00:42:41,890
Alex Lucas who is a parasitologist was

1006
00:42:46,770 --> 00:42:44,080
kind enough to give me his time after

1007
00:42:49,260 --> 00:42:46,780
his seminar I spoke to alex by the pool

1008
00:42:51,810 --> 00:42:49,270
at the marriott hotel where he told me

1009
00:42:54,870 --> 00:42:51,820
about helmuth's parasitology and

1010
00:42:57,180 --> 00:42:54,880
pornography so I'm here with Alex Lucas

1011
00:42:59,550 --> 00:42:57,190
hi Alex welcome to the skipper's owned

1012
00:43:02,370 --> 00:42:59,560
by Rachel thank you you are a

1013
00:43:05,280 --> 00:43:02,380
parasitologist from Queensland from the

1014
00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:05,290
institute for medical research and what

1015
00:43:10,849 --> 00:43:08,170
exactly does a parasitologist do it's

1016
00:43:12,750 --> 00:43:10,859
the peristalsis studies parasites yes

1017
00:43:14,790 --> 00:43:12,760
we'll just look at there are many

1018
00:43:16,800 --> 00:43:14,800
different aspects of parasitology but

1019
00:43:19,710 --> 00:43:16,810
the one that I'm interested in is what

1020
00:43:22,609 --> 00:43:19,720
is the molecular basis of how parasites

1021
00:43:24,630 --> 00:43:22,619
can live a parasitic existence you look

1022
00:43:26,760 --> 00:43:24,640
molecules to they secrete that allow

1023
00:43:30,060 --> 00:43:26,770
them to live in Saada in this case a

1024
00:43:32,280 --> 00:43:30,070
humanist mmm you're interested in the

1025
00:43:35,010 --> 00:43:32,290
hookworm or the helmet aren't you which

1026
00:43:38,490 --> 00:43:35,020
is a poem is a part of the helmet family

1027
00:43:40,470 --> 00:43:38,500
yeah helmets weren't and they belong to

1028
00:43:43,410 --> 00:43:40,480
many different phylogenetic groups

1029
00:43:44,280 --> 00:43:43,420
flatland roundworms tapeworms are all

1030
00:43:46,560 --> 00:43:44,290
helmets

1031
00:43:48,150 --> 00:43:46,570
the hookworms cause a lot of problems

1032
00:43:49,530 --> 00:43:48,160
particularly in the developing world can

1033
00:43:51,240 --> 00:43:49,540
you tell us a little bit about what an

1034
00:43:52,890 --> 00:43:51,250
infection we hookworm would do to a

1035
00:43:55,530 --> 00:43:52,900
person or an animal for that matter

1036
00:43:57,540 --> 00:43:55,540
hookworms used to actually be a problem

1037
00:44:00,450 --> 00:43:57,550
in Australia in humans in Australia and

1038
00:44:03,000 --> 00:44:00,460
even in the 1940s we still have hook

1039
00:44:05,970 --> 00:44:03,010
line through Queensland but a program of

1040
00:44:08,970 --> 00:44:05,980
increased sanitation and public

1041
00:44:11,070 --> 00:44:08,980
awareness and therapy with anti-ha

1042
00:44:12,930 --> 00:44:11,080
Olympic drugs so drugs tablets are

1043
00:44:15,330 --> 00:44:12,940
killed one's pretty much took care of

1044
00:44:17,550 --> 00:44:15,340
Queensland's human hookworm population

1045
00:44:19,020 --> 00:44:17,560
but our dogs are still infected and so

1046
00:44:20,760 --> 00:44:19,030
if you don't treat your dogs through

1047
00:44:22,860 --> 00:44:20,770
anywhere in the tropics of north of

1048
00:44:24,120 --> 00:44:22,870
Brisbane they'll have booked one there's

1049
00:44:28,050 --> 00:44:24,130
a different species to the one that

1050
00:44:30,210 --> 00:44:28,060
infects people so human bookworms are

1051
00:44:31,730 --> 00:44:30,220
prevalent in 7 800 million people

1052
00:44:36,240 --> 00:44:31,740
throughout all the development countries

1053
00:44:38,730 --> 00:44:36,250
particularly sub-saharan Africa and the

1054
00:44:42,330 --> 00:44:38,740
major pathology the hookworms cause is

1055
00:44:43,980 --> 00:44:42,340
blood loss and they live in the gut they

1056
00:44:47,240 --> 00:44:43,990
suck blood and they sup a lot of blood

1057
00:44:49,530 --> 00:44:47,250
and people who are already malnourished

1058
00:44:51,330 --> 00:44:49,540
will if they have a heavy hookworm

1059
00:44:53,130 --> 00:44:51,340
infection will develop iron deficiency

1060
00:44:55,380 --> 00:44:53,140
anemia so a lot enough iron in their

1061
00:44:57,480 --> 00:44:55,390
blood they become it they become

1062
00:44:59,550 --> 00:44:57,490
lethargic so can you tell us a little

1063
00:45:02,370 --> 00:44:59,560
bit about their life cycle you mentioned

1064
00:45:05,100 --> 00:45:02,380
yesterday and your seminar that you can

1065
00:45:08,880 --> 00:45:05,110
excrete up to 20,000 eggs in your feces

1066
00:45:11,640 --> 00:45:08,890
is that right yeah even more yes so one

1067
00:45:13,140 --> 00:45:11,650
and that's just one female worms so

1068
00:45:15,180 --> 00:45:13,150
these ones are separate sexes they're

1069
00:45:17,730 --> 00:45:15,190
males and females they'll sexually

1070
00:45:19,890 --> 00:45:17,740
reproduce and the female will lay many

1071
00:45:22,290 --> 00:45:19,900
many many eggs and eggs come out in the

1072
00:45:24,420 --> 00:45:22,300
feces and they Embree innate in the soil

1073
00:45:26,250 --> 00:45:24,430
and the little larvae hatch out of the X

1074
00:45:28,200 --> 00:45:26,260
and then those larvae are the infectious

1075
00:45:30,450 --> 00:45:28,210
stage that will then penetrate through

1076
00:45:31,089 --> 00:45:30,460
the skin of anybody who happens to come

1077
00:45:34,239 --> 00:45:31,099
in contact

1078
00:45:36,400 --> 00:45:34,249
on the soil or gods so yesterday you

1079
00:45:38,999 --> 00:45:36,410
were going to show us a video of what

1080
00:45:42,789 --> 00:45:39,009
you referred to as the pornography from

1081
00:45:45,069 --> 00:45:42,799
parasitologist but it didn't work oh it

1082
00:45:46,089 --> 00:45:45,079
was working on the computer screen but

1083
00:45:47,859 --> 00:45:46,099
you guys couldn't see it on the

1084
00:45:50,170 --> 00:45:47,869
projector well given that this is also

1085
00:45:51,579 --> 00:45:50,180
an audio based show yeah can you explain

1086
00:45:57,390 --> 00:45:51,589
to us what you were going to show yeah

1087
00:45:59,890 --> 00:45:57,400
videos that video was footage taken by a

1088
00:46:02,979 --> 00:45:59,900
colonoscope a scope of a

1089
00:46:06,190 --> 00:46:02,989
gastroenterologist in this case inserts

1090
00:46:08,969 --> 00:46:06,200
up the rectum and he goes into the small

1091
00:46:12,099 --> 00:46:08,979
intestine and has a look around and

1092
00:46:14,670 --> 00:46:12,109
basically sees what's going on in there

1093
00:46:16,900 --> 00:46:14,680
miss but this was a person from

1094
00:46:18,370 --> 00:46:16,910
Townsville and North Queensland really

1095
00:46:20,410 --> 00:46:18,380
where there is no longer human hookworm

1096
00:46:22,749 --> 00:46:20,420
but this person was actually infected

1097
00:46:24,969 --> 00:46:22,759
with a dual core point now most of us

1098
00:46:27,309 --> 00:46:24,979
anyone who has ever spent any time in

1099
00:46:30,460 --> 00:46:27,319
Queensland or Northern Territory on

1100
00:46:31,539 --> 00:46:30,470
northern wa would have been in fact it's

1101
00:46:33,219 --> 00:46:31,549
the good chance we would have been

1102
00:46:35,229 --> 00:46:33,229
infected with dog before in lobby and we

1103
00:46:36,660 --> 00:46:35,239
never knew about it allow the arrest in

1104
00:46:39,130 --> 00:46:36,670
our tissues and don't cause any

1105
00:46:40,719 --> 00:46:39,140
whatsoever but very occasionally the

1106
00:46:42,819 --> 00:46:40,729
kids that at least one of those larvae

1107
00:46:44,739 --> 00:46:42,829
will make it to adulthood another come

1108
00:46:47,680 --> 00:46:44,749
an adult one residing in the gut

1109
00:46:49,630 --> 00:46:47,690
something on blood and occasionally very

1110
00:46:52,059 --> 00:46:49,640
occasionally those worms Center cause

1111
00:46:54,579 --> 00:46:52,069
really nasty disease who in a very nasty

1112
00:46:57,670 --> 00:46:54,589
enteritis but this particular person who

1113
00:46:59,620 --> 00:46:57,680
I was showing the video footage of this

1114
00:47:02,259 --> 00:46:59,630
person was healthy not sick are having

1115
00:47:04,329 --> 00:47:02,269
an endoscopy for other reasons but the

1116
00:47:06,400 --> 00:47:04,339
gastroenterologist found one single

1117
00:47:08,140 --> 00:47:06,410
hookworm they're sucking blood you know

1118
00:47:09,519 --> 00:47:08,150
you can see very clearly to shame the

1119
00:47:11,650 --> 00:47:09,529
video didn't work as you can see very

1120
00:47:13,690 --> 00:47:11,660
clearly whether one is attached to the

1121
00:47:15,190 --> 00:47:13,700
gut wall there was blood leeching out

1122
00:47:17,019 --> 00:47:15,200
from around the attachment site and

1123
00:47:19,660 --> 00:47:17,029
every soft and the worm would shoot a

1124
00:47:22,599 --> 00:47:19,670
puff of blood out of Tanous oh you can

1125
00:47:24,339 --> 00:47:22,609
just get able to give our me is that the

1126
00:47:26,829 --> 00:47:24,349
point of that's the paragraph expected

1127
00:47:28,690 --> 00:47:26,839
it would have given you a very visual

1128
00:47:30,690 --> 00:47:28,700
appreciation for what a very heavy

1129
00:47:32,250 --> 00:47:30,700
popcorn burnin can

1130
00:47:34,980 --> 00:47:32,260
do in terms of blood loss so how many

1131
00:47:36,630 --> 00:47:34,990
would you possibly be infected with at

1132
00:47:39,329 --> 00:47:36,640
any one time I know that would bury but

1133
00:47:40,500 --> 00:47:39,339
it's more than one oh yeah sure most

1134
00:47:42,660 --> 00:47:40,510
people would be infected with a

1135
00:47:44,880 --> 00:47:42,670
relatively low to moderate infection

1136
00:47:48,120 --> 00:47:44,890
which can be anywhere between just a few

1137
00:47:49,530 --> 00:47:48,130
to 30 40 worms growth but people who are

1138
00:47:51,810 --> 00:47:49,540
heavily infected can have hundreds of

1139
00:47:54,599 --> 00:47:51,820
works well and you mentioned that they

1140
00:47:57,089 --> 00:47:54,609
get to about one centimeter long one to

1141
00:47:58,740 --> 00:47:57,099
1.2 1.3 centimeters long as the adult

1142
00:48:01,260 --> 00:47:58,750
worm that's a bit bad enough when

1143
00:48:02,700 --> 00:48:01,270
they're feeding on blood so part of your

1144
00:48:05,339 --> 00:48:02,710
work is involved developing a vaccine

1145
00:48:06,930 --> 00:48:05,349
against Oakland can you tell us a little

1146
00:48:08,040 --> 00:48:06,940
bit about that because the mechanism

1147
00:48:09,780 --> 00:48:08,050
that you're going to be targeting is

1148
00:48:11,250 --> 00:48:09,790
very interesting you're going to be

1149
00:48:12,750 --> 00:48:11,260
targeting an enzyme that helps them

1150
00:48:14,520 --> 00:48:12,760
break down blood for therefore they

1151
00:48:17,339 --> 00:48:14,530
start can you tell us a bit about that

1152
00:48:19,650 --> 00:48:17,349
the way of Auckland digests its its

1153
00:48:23,370 --> 00:48:19,660
blood meal its food it's very similar to

1154
00:48:25,380 --> 00:48:23,380
the way we do we eat food the proteins

1155
00:48:27,359 --> 00:48:25,390
in our gut are digested by the gist of

1156
00:48:30,060 --> 00:48:27,369
enzymes fulcrums do the same thing

1157
00:48:31,650 --> 00:48:30,070
they'll suck blood they secrete

1158
00:48:34,230 --> 00:48:31,660
molecules that first the red blood cell

1159
00:48:36,870 --> 00:48:34,240
open and then the hemoglobin inside the

1160
00:48:39,420 --> 00:48:36,880
red blood cell is one of the major food

1161
00:48:41,339 --> 00:48:39,430
sources for the worm and then they use a

1162
00:48:44,730 --> 00:48:41,349
bunch of different enzymes which we call

1163
00:48:47,010 --> 00:48:44,740
proteases to digest the hemoglobin is a

1164
00:48:48,599 --> 00:48:47,020
small peptides or little single amino

1165
00:48:50,609 --> 00:48:48,609
acids that they can then absorb and

1166
00:48:54,000 --> 00:48:50,619
useful nutrition so we're trying to

1167
00:48:55,890 --> 00:48:54,010
develop a vaccine where we would induce

1168
00:48:58,260 --> 00:48:55,900
an antibody response and the people who

1169
00:48:59,940 --> 00:48:58,270
are vaccinated those antibodies would be

1170
00:49:01,829 --> 00:48:59,950
swallowed by the worm when we're sucking

1171
00:49:03,900 --> 00:49:01,839
on our blood and those antibodies be

1172
00:49:06,210 --> 00:49:03,910
then attack the gut of little boom where

1173
00:49:07,710 --> 00:49:06,220
those crowley ages are secreted and then

1174
00:49:09,660 --> 00:49:07,720
inhibit the ability of the learn to

1175
00:49:12,270 --> 00:49:09,670
digestive blood meal and would effective

1176
00:49:14,160 --> 00:49:12,280
us starve so essentially the antibodies

1177
00:49:15,870 --> 00:49:14,170
coming from the human blood source so

1178
00:49:17,730 --> 00:49:15,880
you inject the person with their vaccine

1179
00:49:20,160 --> 00:49:17,740
they develop the antibodies and then

1180
00:49:22,109 --> 00:49:20,170
when the worm ingest that that's when

1181
00:49:24,329 --> 00:49:22,119
they can't make food out of the

1182
00:49:27,650 --> 00:49:24,339
hemoglobin it's quite a lot of poison we

1183
00:49:30,500 --> 00:49:27,660
use the analogy of the poison chalice or

1184
00:49:31,670 --> 00:49:30,510
yeah and it's safe the ones are doing

1185
00:49:33,500 --> 00:49:31,680
what they want to do and they're sucking

1186
00:49:37,130 --> 00:49:33,510
on their having a blood meal just like a

1187
00:49:38,809 --> 00:49:37,140
mosquito would yeah but that blood meal

1188
00:49:40,640 --> 00:49:38,819
is laced with antibodies that are going

1189
00:49:41,870 --> 00:49:40,650
to start attacking the worms own gut you

1190
00:49:44,319 --> 00:49:41,880
mentioned before that there's a vaccine

1191
00:49:46,490 --> 00:49:44,329
for dogs is that based on this sort of

1192
00:49:48,859 --> 00:49:46,500
technology or is a very different it's

1193
00:49:50,900 --> 00:49:48,869
very different that vaccine is no longer

1194
00:49:52,220 --> 00:49:50,910
available but was available in the 70s

1195
00:49:54,470 --> 00:49:52,230
it was actually developed in the mid to

1196
00:49:56,000 --> 00:49:54,480
late 60s and that was a vaccine that's

1197
00:49:58,309 --> 00:49:56,010
more like the vaccines that we all get

1198
00:50:00,500 --> 00:49:58,319
against viruses and and some bacteria

1199
00:50:02,750 --> 00:50:00,510
that's called an attenuated parasite

1200
00:50:04,700 --> 00:50:02,760
vaccine so well that vaccine they took

1201
00:50:07,010 --> 00:50:04,710
the larval stage and put the stage it

1202
00:50:08,960 --> 00:50:07,020
infects through the skin and they gave

1203
00:50:10,940 --> 00:50:08,970
them the dose of radiation and that

1204
00:50:13,789 --> 00:50:10,950
stops the parasites from being able to

1205
00:50:15,819 --> 00:50:13,799
further develop then they stay alive so

1206
00:50:18,829 --> 00:50:15,829
when the dogs were injected with those

1207
00:50:20,990 --> 00:50:18,839
attenuated parasites they stimulated an

1208
00:50:22,609 --> 00:50:21,000
immune response the immune response was

1209
00:50:24,950 --> 00:50:22,619
able to kick in and protect the dogs

1210
00:50:26,870 --> 00:50:24,960
that those la vie could not develop once

1211
00:50:28,849 --> 00:50:26,880
they are inside the dog who was that

1212
00:50:30,500 --> 00:50:28,859
technology not able to be applied to

1213
00:50:32,420 --> 00:50:30,510
humans why is it that we've never had

1214
00:50:34,400 --> 00:50:32,430
that vaccine available to kill me yeah

1215
00:50:36,589 --> 00:50:34,410
it's a good question um that approach

1216
00:50:38,480 --> 00:50:36,599
would almost certainly work for human

1217
00:50:40,339 --> 00:50:38,490
vaccine but we're talking about a

1218
00:50:43,339 --> 00:50:40,349
disease here of developing countries

1219
00:50:44,990 --> 00:50:43,349
where the costs in producing it and

1220
00:50:47,240 --> 00:50:45,000
administering it need to be really

1221
00:50:49,339 --> 00:50:47,250
really low and making a vaccine where

1222
00:50:51,109 --> 00:50:49,349
you would have to culture trillions and

1223
00:50:52,730 --> 00:50:51,119
trillions and put comme la vie I to

1224
00:50:53,960 --> 00:50:52,740
radiate them and get them out to

1225
00:50:57,079 --> 00:50:53,970
developing countries is just completely

1226
00:50:58,849 --> 00:50:57,089
unfeasible economical right ok so does

1227
00:51:00,920 --> 00:50:58,859
it cost it's a constant rate across the

1228
00:51:03,170 --> 00:51:00,930
air ok we have to keep things as low as

1229
00:51:04,819 --> 00:51:03,180
possible so the aim of the vaccine of

1230
00:51:07,609 --> 00:51:04,829
course is to stop people becoming anemic

1231
00:51:11,059 --> 00:51:07,619
and is that your main a out of it yes

1232
00:51:12,260 --> 00:51:11,069
you can if you can reduce blood loss it

1233
00:51:14,120 --> 00:51:12,270
doesn't matter if you've got a few hook

1234
00:51:17,029 --> 00:51:14,130
one janiga so long as you are not

1235
00:51:18,140 --> 00:51:17,039
suffering significant blood loss then

1236
00:51:19,549 --> 00:51:18,150
people don't really know they're

1237
00:51:22,400 --> 00:51:19,559
infected and they won't real they won't

1238
00:51:24,799 --> 00:51:22,410
suffer any illness other than the blood

1239
00:51:27,289 --> 00:51:24,809
loss associated with heavy infections so

1240
00:51:29,089 --> 00:51:27,299
this work that you're doing alex is in

1241
00:51:30,140 --> 00:51:29,099
collaboration with some other people as

1242
00:51:31,609 --> 00:51:30,150
well I know that you're getting some

1243
00:51:33,980 --> 00:51:31,619
funding from the Bill and Melinda Gates

1244
00:51:36,290 --> 00:51:33,990
Foundation has become very absolutely

1245
00:51:38,960 --> 00:51:36,300
funding research for the developing

1246
00:51:42,170 --> 00:51:38,970
world where often the world is this

1247
00:51:44,480 --> 00:51:42,180
research being done so this is our gates

1248
00:51:46,940 --> 00:51:44,490
funded program is a multicenter

1249
00:51:49,220 --> 00:51:46,950
initiative our colleagues in washington

1250
00:51:51,770 --> 00:51:49,230
DC at george washington university are

1251
00:51:53,720 --> 00:51:51,780
really the central point they manageable

1252
00:51:55,040 --> 00:51:53,730
and we have colleagues in brazil which

1253
00:51:57,080 --> 00:51:55,050
is where we do our fieldwork and our

1254
00:51:58,820 --> 00:51:57,090
clinical trials with colleagues in

1255
00:52:01,490 --> 00:51:58,830
London so this is sort of all over the

1256
00:52:03,140 --> 00:52:01,500
world yeah well good luck we found the

1257
00:52:04,580 --> 00:52:03,150
development of the vaccine Alex and

1258
00:52:07,370 --> 00:52:04,590
thank you for taking time to talk to us

1259
00:52:09,320 --> 00:52:07,380
today Rock'em I look forward to hearing

1260
00:52:11,990 --> 00:52:09,330
about the progress of a vaccine for

1261
00:52:14,840 --> 00:52:12,000
hookworm thanks to Alex for joining us

1262
00:52:16,700 --> 00:52:14,850
and stay tuned listeners for in the next

1263
00:52:18,680 --> 00:52:16,710
few weeks i'll have more reports from

1264
00:52:21,260 --> 00:52:18,690
the international proteolysis society

1265
00:52:24,320 --> 00:52:21,270
meeting this time about new therapies

1266
00:52:40,340 --> 00:52:24,330
for malaria and until next time this has

1267
00:52:44,760 --> 00:52:42,690
astronomy cast it takes a fact space

1268
00:52:46,470 --> 00:52:44,770
journey through the cosmos as it offers

1269
00:52:49,170 --> 00:52:46,480
listeners weekly discussions on

1270
00:52:52,110 --> 00:52:49,180
astronomical topics ranging from planets

1271
00:52:54,360 --> 00:52:52,120
to cosmology hosted by Fraser Cain of

1272
00:52:55,380 --> 00:52:54,370
Universe Today and myself dr. Pamela

1273
00:52:58,050 --> 00:52:55,390
gave southern illinois university

1274
00:52:59,910 --> 00:52:58,060
edwardsville this show brings the

1275
00:53:02,370 --> 00:52:59,920
questions of an avid astronomy lover

1276
00:53:04,470 --> 00:53:02,380
directly to an astronomer together

1277
00:53:06,000 --> 00:53:04,480
Fraser and I explore what is known and

1278
00:53:08,760 --> 00:53:06,010
being discovered about the universe

1279
00:53:10,830 --> 00:53:08,770
around us join us each week as we take a

1280
00:53:20,400 --> 00:53:10,840
fact space journey through the cosmos at

1281
00:53:27,500 --> 00:53:20,410
astronomy cast com join us now for

1282
00:53:35,009 --> 00:53:30,539
well cheers everybody welcome once again

1283
00:53:36,630 --> 00:53:35,019
to a think tank now listen we must

1284
00:53:40,109 --> 00:53:36,640
before I introduce everybody we must

1285
00:53:42,960 --> 00:53:40,119
sincerely thank Alyssa Goldberg from New

1286
00:53:49,349 --> 00:53:42,970
York who has sent us some money to bias

1287
00:53:50,880 --> 00:53:49,359
the drinks we are now drinking my other

1288
00:53:54,750 --> 00:53:50,890
record has just fallen off the tail

1289
00:53:57,180 --> 00:53:54,760
around what what a it's really great to

1290
00:53:59,460 --> 00:53:57,190
have dr. Reggie back in the country from

1291
00:54:03,450 --> 00:53:59,470
your adventures overseas visiting the

1292
00:54:06,059 --> 00:54:03,460
USA Miami I did yeah and a good time

1293
00:54:09,539 --> 00:54:06,069
yeah it was interesting the conference

1294
00:54:11,130 --> 00:54:09,549
was very very good it was about ALS or

1295
00:54:14,130 --> 00:54:11,140
otherwise known as Lou Gehrig's disease

1296
00:54:17,400 --> 00:54:14,140
ah lots of American listeners will

1297
00:54:22,259 --> 00:54:17,410
remember Lou Gehrig he was a the

1298
00:54:26,400 --> 00:54:22,269
sporting areas yes sir please javelin

1299
00:54:27,839 --> 00:54:26,410
move it off a plane for 12 hours and I

1300
00:54:29,670 --> 00:54:27,849
didn't sleep much you got off the plane

1301
00:54:33,660 --> 00:54:29,680
today didn't you got off this morning oh

1302
00:54:35,819 --> 00:54:33,670
you poor thing yeah so yeah listeners

1303
00:54:38,240 --> 00:54:35,829
might remember me banging on about the

1304
00:54:40,380 --> 00:54:38,250
bats and the connection between the Guam

1305
00:54:42,930 --> 00:54:40,390
indigenous people eating bats and

1306
00:54:44,549 --> 00:54:42,940
hitting and early onset ALS like

1307
00:54:47,519 --> 00:54:44,559
Parkinson's syndrome or the conference

1308
00:54:49,769 --> 00:54:47,529
was about that so that was necessary and

1309
00:54:51,749 --> 00:54:49,779
it's a very good to see that the chief

1310
00:54:54,140 --> 00:54:51,759
investigator from Australian skeptics

1311
00:54:57,029 --> 00:54:54,150
Ian Bryce is back with us from your

1312
00:55:01,440 --> 00:54:57,039
interesting trips overseas now you've

1313
00:55:03,359 --> 00:55:01,450
been to Korea China Tibet yes indeed the

1314
00:55:06,029 --> 00:55:03,369
first week was the International

1315
00:55:07,920 --> 00:55:06,039
astronautics Congress in South Korea

1316
00:55:09,930 --> 00:55:07,930
where I gave a couple of papers on

1317
00:55:11,640 --> 00:55:09,940
rocket science which is how I earned the

1318
00:55:13,049 --> 00:55:11,650
money that was interesting according to

1319
00:55:16,190 --> 00:55:13,059
your shirt you're wearing at the moment

1320
00:55:18,420 --> 00:55:16,200
rocket scientist yes and then I went to

1321
00:55:22,499 --> 00:55:18,430
Katmandu where I was an invited speaker

1322
00:55:25,319 --> 00:55:22,509
at a young humanists conference wow that

1323
00:55:28,589 --> 00:55:25,329
had a few connections with skeptics then

1324
00:55:30,750 --> 00:55:28,599
I flew to Tibet yeah and after that I

1325
00:55:33,480 --> 00:55:30,760
back through China good Heaven Hong Kong

1326
00:55:35,910 --> 00:55:33,490
back to Australia so senator bit of Asia

1327
00:55:38,190 --> 00:55:35,920
in this trip what an adventure what

1328
00:55:40,230 --> 00:55:38,200
adventure and it's a big welcome to Joe

1329
00:55:42,390 --> 00:55:40,240
and Benham ooh thank you dispatch from

1330
00:55:44,010 --> 00:55:42,400
the wild as you would have heard earlier

1331
00:55:47,400 --> 00:55:44,020
in the show of course the wild and

1332
00:55:49,500 --> 00:55:47,410
woolly amazing mind trip that is mind

1333
00:55:51,210 --> 00:55:49,510
body spirit yes and I feel a little bit

1334
00:55:55,950 --> 00:55:51,220
like dr. H at the moment I actually feel

1335
00:55:57,540 --> 00:55:55,960
jet-lagged up somehow I'm not surprised

1336
00:55:59,760 --> 00:55:57,550
somehow I'm not surprised good to see

1337
00:56:01,800 --> 00:55:59,770
you joke now but look before we get

1338
00:56:03,180 --> 00:56:01,810
started into some of the topics that our

1339
00:56:06,240 --> 00:56:03,190
friends have brought along to the think

1340
00:56:08,400 --> 00:56:06,250
tank tonight let me mention that the

1341
00:56:10,560 --> 00:56:08,410
Australian skeptics are now regulars

1342
00:56:13,740 --> 00:56:10,570
it's very very pleasing regulars on

1343
00:56:15,780 --> 00:56:13,750
radio 2 GB here in Sydney which is I

1344
00:56:19,110 --> 00:56:15,790
think the foremost commercial radio

1345
00:56:21,570 --> 00:56:19,120
network in in Sydney radio station 2 GB

1346
00:56:23,460 --> 00:56:21,580
is actually named after Jordan Oh Bruno

1347
00:56:25,590 --> 00:56:23,470
who was burnt at the stake by the

1348
00:56:27,750 --> 00:56:25,600
Catholic Church for promoting skepticism

1349
00:56:30,660 --> 00:56:27,760
about 400 years ago your absolute one of

1350
00:56:32,900 --> 00:56:30,670
our heroes you're absolutely right 2gb

1351
00:56:36,780 --> 00:56:32,910
that's where the G and the B come from

1352
00:56:38,460 --> 00:56:36,790
and two is the the radio business of New

1353
00:56:41,220 --> 00:56:38,470
South Wales the state were in at the

1354
00:56:43,770 --> 00:56:41,230
moment anyway um an old friend of mine

1355
00:56:46,770 --> 00:56:43,780
Glen wheeler who's a radio announcer nur

1356
00:56:49,260 --> 00:56:46,780
and a very good host has a new show on

1357
00:56:51,420 --> 00:56:49,270
Saturday nights and he invited me to

1358
00:56:54,330 --> 00:56:51,430
come along and see if we couldn't have a

1359
00:56:55,770 --> 00:56:54,340
skeptical input and our listeners would

1360
00:57:00,510 --> 00:56:55,780
have heard the first episode with the

1361
00:57:02,570 --> 00:57:00,520
raid she and I dr. H and I subsequently

1362
00:57:04,890 --> 00:57:02,580
I've been back to do another one I did

1363
00:57:06,690 --> 00:57:04,900
pre-record this afternoon I think we're

1364
00:57:09,000 --> 00:57:06,700
even back this saturday night so it's

1365
00:57:12,000 --> 00:57:09,010
going very well a big thank you to Glen

1366
00:57:15,060 --> 00:57:12,010
wheeler who has a very sharp mind a very

1367
00:57:17,010 --> 00:57:15,070
skeptical mind at heart and that's very

1368
00:57:19,340 --> 00:57:17,020
gratifying and good fun isn't it Reggie

1369
00:57:22,620 --> 00:57:19,350
it's great fun and it's also interesting

1370
00:57:26,150 --> 00:57:22,630
that that time slot used to be filled by

1371
00:57:29,760 --> 00:57:26,160
a psychic you do for 12 years actually

1372
00:57:31,350 --> 00:57:29,770
and it was recently the radio station

1373
00:57:33,180 --> 00:57:31,360
decided to just sort of shuffle around

1374
00:57:35,730 --> 00:57:33,190
their format a little bit just to

1375
00:57:38,520 --> 00:57:35,740
experiment and they filled the spot with

1376
00:57:40,530 --> 00:57:38,530
Glen oulous well then well that will get

1377
00:57:41,850 --> 00:57:40,540
Glen wheeler who invited us along and

1378
00:57:44,190 --> 00:57:41,860
Glen has a sort of a

1379
00:57:45,960 --> 00:57:44,200
bag of entertainment and songs and

1380
00:57:49,250 --> 00:57:45,970
things so it's very good it's very good

1381
00:57:50,940 --> 00:57:49,260
indeed grateful apart from your

1382
00:57:54,210 --> 00:57:50,950
wonderful report from the

1383
00:57:56,340 --> 00:57:54,220
mind-body-spirit festival joe and that

1384
00:57:59,760 --> 00:57:56,350
was quite an experience wasn't I mean my

1385
00:58:01,380 --> 00:57:59,770
goodness me yes we went to one we went

1386
00:58:05,070 --> 00:58:01,390
to the last one in Sydney six months ago

1387
00:58:07,500 --> 00:58:05,080
and I I think I went along this time

1388
00:58:10,410 --> 00:58:07,510
last one was my first one so this one I

1389
00:58:12,800 --> 00:58:10,420
knew what I was in for but we both I

1390
00:58:15,990 --> 00:58:12,810
must say that this time we both later Oh

1391
00:58:18,120 --> 00:58:16,000
what is not guard down a little more

1392
00:58:20,640 --> 00:58:18,130
reserved directly i think last time we

1393
00:58:23,280 --> 00:58:20,650
went and dr. she was there with us that

1394
00:58:25,590 --> 00:58:23,290
time when we weren't more with the the

1395
00:58:28,860 --> 00:58:25,600
idea of really just asking questions in

1396
00:58:31,740 --> 00:58:28,870
a in a less obviously presenting

1397
00:58:33,600 --> 00:58:31,750
ourselves as skeptics i guess we jump we

1398
00:58:36,180 --> 00:58:33,610
just went in there sort of a bit

1399
00:58:38,160 --> 00:58:36,190
innocently to just talk see what people

1400
00:58:42,030 --> 00:58:38,170
said and not really challenged people

1401
00:58:44,610 --> 00:58:42,040
too much and I I think that for me

1402
00:58:47,310 --> 00:58:44,620
anyway my very first encounter just I

1403
00:58:49,710 --> 00:58:47,320
really couldn't you're shorter are you I

1404
00:58:51,570 --> 00:58:49,720
was right dr. H II a year or year and

1405
00:58:53,790 --> 00:58:51,580
half ago that was your experience wasn't

1406
00:58:56,460 --> 00:58:53,800
it yeah who's shaking you won't have a

1407
00:58:58,320 --> 00:58:56,470
angry that I was stated yeah yeah I had

1408
00:59:02,580 --> 00:58:58,330
to be shuffled off in the corner by you

1409
00:59:05,160 --> 00:59:02,590
and I remember yeah yeah I mean we were

1410
00:59:07,020 --> 00:59:05,170
there for all of five minutes and the

1411
00:59:09,360 --> 00:59:07,030
very first all I went up to i walked

1412
00:59:15,110 --> 00:59:09,370
away from it better I almost was

1413
00:59:18,060 --> 00:59:15,120
manhandled 44 simply questioning why

1414
00:59:19,650 --> 00:59:18,070
it's necessary to me isn't it isn't it

1415
00:59:21,060 --> 00:59:19,660
interesting and all the years I've gone

1416
00:59:24,150 --> 00:59:21,070
there and the one thing I've noticed is

1417
00:59:26,400 --> 00:59:24,160
they don't they don't know how to react

1418
00:59:28,800 --> 00:59:26,410
properly to questions no because people

1419
00:59:30,870 --> 00:59:28,810
don't ask people don't ask questions how

1420
00:59:33,819 --> 00:59:30,880
does it work a short works what if we

1421
00:59:37,209 --> 00:59:33,829
test it these are outside their

1422
00:59:39,099 --> 00:59:37,219
experience it's fascinating you've been

1423
00:59:41,259 --> 00:59:39,109
haven't you into the mind barrage body

1424
00:59:42,759 --> 00:59:41,269
spirit have indeed yes yeah yeah all the

1425
00:59:44,019 --> 00:59:42,769
gaming world all together and thinks

1426
00:59:45,370 --> 00:59:44,029
that the laws of science must be

1427
00:59:49,089 --> 00:59:45,380
different there than the rest of the

1428
00:59:51,370 --> 00:59:49,099
world Orion's science what's that well

1429
00:59:53,380 --> 00:59:51,380
actually exercise she depends sorry you

1430
00:59:54,759 --> 00:59:53,390
know you go that depends on what suits

1431
00:59:56,979 --> 00:59:54,769
them Richard they'll use the scientific

1432
00:59:58,900 --> 00:59:56,989
suits there cause even doesn't stick

1433
01:00:00,609 --> 00:59:58,910
their course are just physically in fact

1434
01:00:02,469 --> 01:00:00,619
in fact everyone's using quantum theory

1435
01:00:04,870 --> 01:00:02,479
right exactly and in fact I did notice

1436
01:00:06,910 --> 01:00:04,880
this year that the the use of scientific

1437
01:00:10,959 --> 01:00:06,920
term it or not terminology seem to be

1438
01:00:15,180 --> 01:00:10,969
more blatant than well I have abs bag

1439
01:00:17,890 --> 01:00:15,190
full of fliers and leaflets actually

1440
01:00:22,029 --> 01:00:17,900
from them oh here we go here's a

1441
01:00:24,819 --> 01:00:22,039
favorite of yours dr. AG team of you

1442
01:00:26,979 --> 01:00:24,829
live blood analysis live blood analysis

1443
01:00:28,690 --> 01:00:26,989
we hadn't run in with these people the

1444
01:00:30,309 --> 01:00:28,700
very first time I went I think because

1445
01:00:32,829 --> 01:00:30,319
they claimed it was scientifically

1446
01:00:34,630 --> 01:00:32,839
tested didn't they when we asked him for

1447
01:00:36,009 --> 01:00:34,640
evidence they they got really agree with

1448
01:00:40,109 --> 01:00:36,019
doctors or if we were from the

1449
01:00:41,829 --> 01:00:40,119
government yeah Reconnective healing Oh

1450
01:00:44,559 --> 01:00:41,839
reconnective healing that was an

1451
01:00:46,719 --> 01:00:44,569
interesting one yeah we had we had just

1452
01:00:49,209 --> 01:00:46,729
most fascinating experience talking to

1453
01:00:51,729 --> 01:00:49,219
these people where you know they claim

1454
01:00:53,680 --> 01:00:51,739
that by waving their hands over you they

1455
01:00:55,059 --> 01:00:53,690
can heal you and so on and it's the

1456
01:00:57,459 --> 01:00:55,069
usual stuff of just about every other

1457
01:01:01,390 --> 01:00:57,469
you know therapeutic touch and Reiki and

1458
01:01:03,640 --> 01:01:01,400
all them and when we actually challenged

1459
01:01:05,680 --> 01:01:03,650
them and said look we offered them the

1460
01:01:07,120 --> 01:01:05,690
the you know the Australians get this

1461
01:01:08,799 --> 01:01:07,130
hundred thousand dollar challenge and

1462
01:01:11,009 --> 01:01:08,809
said to them that it would be quite

1463
01:01:14,109 --> 01:01:11,019
simple to test their claims and and

1464
01:01:16,449 --> 01:01:14,119
their response was that they couldn't

1465
01:01:18,759 --> 01:01:16,459
see why they should do a simple test

1466
01:01:21,400 --> 01:01:18,769
when it made far more sense to do a very

1467
01:01:23,829 --> 01:01:21,410
complicated one given their treatment is

1468
01:01:25,599 --> 01:01:23,839
very complicated so at that point

1469
01:01:28,479 --> 01:01:25,609
Richard and I just shook our heads and

1470
01:01:31,539 --> 01:01:28,489
walked away yeah but at least we gave

1471
01:01:36,759 --> 01:01:31,549
them the card yeah we also gave our card

1472
01:01:38,739 --> 01:01:36,769
to the execution cell fusion Excel

1473
01:01:43,329 --> 01:01:38,749
fusion excel with their quantum pendant

1474
01:01:45,620 --> 01:01:43,339
that turns normal drinking water into

1475
01:01:48,620 --> 01:01:45,630
you rub it on your skin and it blocks

1476
01:01:52,849 --> 01:01:48,630
the sun's rays that's the lady the lady

1477
01:01:54,620 --> 01:01:52,859
who was was helping run the store she

1478
01:01:57,439 --> 01:01:54,630
told us that she uses this on her

1479
01:01:59,959 --> 01:01:57,449
grandchildren because she doesn't want

1480
01:02:01,939 --> 01:01:59,969
to expose them to the nasty chemicals in

1481
01:02:04,429 --> 01:02:01,949
sunscreen so well of course there's no

1482
01:02:09,189 --> 01:02:04,439
problem with skin cancer in Australia

1483
01:02:11,719 --> 01:02:09,199
right now no not at all well in fact as

1484
01:02:14,779 --> 01:02:11,729
dr. Rachel bought to my attention last

1485
01:02:17,419 --> 01:02:14,789
time the New South Wales Department of

1486
01:02:19,729 --> 01:02:17,429
Health now has it has had for quite a

1487
01:02:21,999 --> 01:02:19,739
long time actually a code of conduct for

1488
01:02:23,929 --> 01:02:22,009
unregistered non-registered health

1489
01:02:27,199 --> 01:02:23,939
practitioners normally professionals

1490
01:02:29,630 --> 01:02:27,209
whatever they call themselves and it's

1491
01:02:31,009 --> 01:02:29,640
it's mandatory that they display this

1492
01:02:33,319 --> 01:02:31,019
code of conduct anywhere where they

1493
01:02:35,479 --> 01:02:33,329
carry out their treatments and how many

1494
01:02:37,339 --> 01:02:35,489
did you pay I played I played fine

1495
01:02:39,799 --> 01:02:37,349
though I played code of conduct bingo

1496
01:02:42,199 --> 01:02:39,809
and Rachel how many hands can you count

1497
01:02:44,059 --> 01:02:42,209
on it which I found yes Rachel guess how

1498
01:02:46,069 --> 01:02:44,069
many had the code of feedback and wait

1499
01:02:51,199 --> 01:02:46,079
let me let me use riches little it rise

1500
01:02:54,140 --> 01:02:51,209
with zero isn't that surprising yeah I

1501
01:02:56,630 --> 01:02:54,150
was a tox just shot it right up there in

1502
01:02:58,279 --> 01:02:56,640
in the very beginning of the code of

1503
01:03:01,459 --> 01:02:58,289
conduct which was introduced in August

1504
01:03:03,259 --> 01:03:01,469
2008 by the Health Department of New

1505
01:03:05,589 --> 01:03:03,269
South Wales which is an amendment to the

1506
01:03:08,509 --> 01:03:05,599
Public Health Act of nineteen eighty-one

1507
01:03:10,999 --> 01:03:08,519
clearly saying that you must display

1508
01:03:14,359 --> 01:03:11,009
this wherever you are doing alternative

1509
01:03:18,769 --> 01:03:14,369
health practitioner treatments yeah but

1510
01:03:20,449 --> 01:03:18,779
um the point is do you think they can do

1511
01:03:22,370 --> 01:03:20,459
you think that doesn't matter if they

1512
01:03:23,719 --> 01:03:22,380
care because no one's policing it so

1513
01:03:25,669 --> 01:03:23,729
what's that's what that's what I mean

1514
01:03:28,160 --> 01:03:25,679
I'm sorry when I was once when I think

1515
01:03:30,620 --> 01:03:28,170
when I said to do do you think they care

1516
01:03:31,849 --> 01:03:30,630
I'm into health authorities I'll sorry I

1517
01:03:33,410 --> 01:03:31,859
thought you met the practitioners I

1518
01:03:34,759 --> 01:03:33,420
don't care but the hell of a sorry thank

1519
01:03:36,559 --> 01:03:34,769
you I think my health authorities are

1520
01:03:38,929 --> 01:03:36,569
probably going they have other things

1521
01:03:40,759 --> 01:03:38,939
other things to deal with I think given

1522
01:03:43,039 --> 01:03:40,769
this later this I'd be a goldmine of

1523
01:03:44,989 --> 01:03:43,049
prosecutions for them yeah but they

1524
01:03:47,059 --> 01:03:44,999
don't have the the reserves and

1525
01:03:48,650 --> 01:03:47,069
resources they don't well then then

1526
01:03:50,719 --> 01:03:48,660
we're forced to turn to tabloid

1527
01:03:51,859 --> 01:03:50,729
television yeah which is unfortunate

1528
01:03:53,300 --> 01:03:51,869
because in fact the tab the waste thing

1529
01:03:55,130 --> 01:03:53,310
about the tabloid television is that

1530
01:03:56,990 --> 01:03:55,140
wait they'll be condemning it in the

1531
01:03:58,730 --> 01:03:57,000
next week will be promoting well what

1532
01:04:00,440 --> 01:03:58,740
they'll probably do if they do the story

1533
01:04:02,900 --> 01:04:00,450
at all they will find people who think

1534
01:04:05,210 --> 01:04:02,910
it works hmm but try telling that to

1535
01:04:07,490 --> 01:04:05,220
Mughal Scroggins who says that cured her

1536
01:04:09,530 --> 01:04:07,500
well I mean always do stories like that

1537
01:04:11,690 --> 01:04:09,540
though well maybe I'm being unfair I

1538
01:04:16,010 --> 01:04:11,700
mean I think one of the things that um I

1539
01:04:17,900 --> 01:04:16,020
really feel bothered buys you know we're

1540
01:04:20,360 --> 01:04:17,910
very conscious of the fact of the a

1541
01:04:23,480 --> 01:04:20,370
certain language that these people avoid

1542
01:04:26,170 --> 01:04:23,490
using to avoid getting getting in

1543
01:04:28,280 --> 01:04:26,180
trouble oh the guy with the cancer yeah

1544
01:04:30,050 --> 01:04:28,290
about him before and you know that

1545
01:04:32,270 --> 01:04:30,060
they'll they'll never use words like

1546
01:04:35,420 --> 01:04:32,280
cure but they they will happily use

1547
01:04:37,580 --> 01:04:35,430
words like treat or pure heal he said

1548
01:04:41,570 --> 01:04:37,590
his stuff kills cancer and in fact this

1549
01:04:43,820 --> 01:04:41,580
is a guy who we discussed before and

1550
01:04:45,770 --> 01:04:43,830
I've written about before and he um I

1551
01:04:50,510 --> 01:04:45,780
know I know he's like ones that makes

1552
01:04:53,570 --> 01:04:50,520
doctor rate she almost explode and that

1553
01:04:55,700 --> 01:04:53,580
this is a guy who is selling a mixture

1554
01:04:58,130 --> 01:04:55,710
of various potions that he claims will

1555
01:05:00,410 --> 01:04:58,140
will kill the cancer cells and when I

1556
01:05:02,360 --> 01:05:00,420
challenged him on this and I said to him

1557
01:05:06,230 --> 01:05:02,370
so you're telling me that you know that

1558
01:05:08,330 --> 01:05:06,240
this can cure cancer and his sidekick

1559
01:05:10,370 --> 01:05:08,340
sidle up to me and they both sort of

1560
01:05:12,560 --> 01:05:10,380
whack the things I mean said oh no no no

1561
01:05:14,090 --> 01:05:12,570
that's not what we're saying it will

1562
01:05:16,640 --> 01:05:14,100
kill the cat it will kill the cancer

1563
01:05:18,250 --> 01:05:16,650
cells but no no no no we never said that

1564
01:05:20,570 --> 01:05:18,260
we never said it would cure the cancer

1565
01:05:22,220 --> 01:05:20,580
so they're really really careful you

1566
01:05:23,690 --> 01:05:22,230
bash them you push them like I did use

1567
01:05:26,800 --> 01:05:23,700
them on and I guess the thing that

1568
01:05:29,900 --> 01:05:26,810
bothers me is I mean really it's just

1569
01:05:33,170 --> 01:05:29,910
splitting hairs I mean you cannot tell

1570
01:05:35,330 --> 01:05:33,180
me that a naive person who walks up to

1571
01:05:37,400 --> 01:05:35,340
these people and sees them using words

1572
01:05:41,120 --> 01:05:37,410
like heal and treat I'm not going to

1573
01:05:43,160 --> 01:05:41,130
associate that innate yes aids as well

1574
01:05:44,840 --> 01:05:43,170
as aids too and I wasn't an interesting

1575
01:05:47,060 --> 01:05:44,850
Joe that when we were there there was a

1576
01:05:49,970 --> 01:05:47,070
woman next to us also listening to what

1577
01:05:51,950 --> 01:05:49,980
this guy said and she was actually

1578
01:05:54,140 --> 01:05:51,960
asking my questions it was really

1579
01:05:55,580 --> 01:05:54,150
interesting as we twig didn't we did we

1580
01:05:58,730 --> 01:05:55,590
were listening to what she was saying

1581
01:06:00,500 --> 01:05:58,740
and um and it very very quickly we could

1582
01:06:02,180 --> 01:06:00,510
tell that this was someone who was

1583
01:06:02,960 --> 01:06:02,190
actually asking questions because they

1584
01:06:04,550 --> 01:06:02,970
that

1585
01:06:07,970 --> 01:06:04,560
knew there was something fishy going on

1586
01:06:09,470 --> 01:06:07,980
and in fact we then sort of whispering

1587
01:06:10,580 --> 01:06:09,480
each other on as we were questioning him

1588
01:06:13,940 --> 01:06:10,590
and then when we walked away she

1589
01:06:16,220 --> 01:06:13,950
actually asked what what you know we

1590
01:06:18,260 --> 01:06:16,230
were there for and she said that you

1591
01:06:20,570 --> 01:06:18,270
know she had a friend who had cancer and

1592
01:06:24,560 --> 01:06:20,580
who had started taking all manner of

1593
01:06:27,370 --> 01:06:24,570
bizarre bazaar treatments that had been

1594
01:06:31,580 --> 01:06:27,380
englished on him by people so very sad

1595
01:06:34,100 --> 01:06:31,590
thinking of testing Johnny yes I've got

1596
01:06:36,350 --> 01:06:34,110
an article here wet which we discussed

1597
01:06:39,140 --> 01:06:36,360
over dinner which is about complementary

1598
01:06:41,990 --> 01:06:39,150
medicine oh yes and it so it was

1599
01:06:44,150 --> 01:06:42,000
released on the 9th of November and is

1600
01:06:46,340 --> 01:06:44,160
talking about the fact that the EU or

1601
01:06:50,870 --> 01:06:46,350
the European Union is now going to be

1602
01:06:53,030 --> 01:06:50,880
funding 1.5 million euro or 2.25 million

1603
01:06:57,710 --> 01:06:53,040
australian dollars worth of research

1604
01:07:00,050 --> 01:06:57,720
into cam yes but some an utter waste of

1605
01:07:01,580 --> 01:07:00,060
money well it's going to be a three-year

1606
01:07:07,040 --> 01:07:01,590
project and it's going to be called can

1607
01:07:09,920 --> 01:07:07,050
briella yeah genius which is just

1608
01:07:12,650 --> 01:07:09,930
batshit my name is noise I'm Ellen

1609
01:07:14,810 --> 01:07:12,660
Camarilla because it's you know it's

1610
01:07:18,200 --> 01:07:14,820
covering the compliment whole tournament

1611
01:07:20,090 --> 01:07:18,210
Reller umbrella yeah I mean look I I

1612
01:07:22,100 --> 01:07:20,100
don't want to immediately sound like I'm

1613
01:07:24,950 --> 01:07:22,110
sneering at the idea of doing research

1614
01:07:27,380 --> 01:07:24,960
into alternative treatments because as

1615
01:07:30,800 --> 01:07:27,390
we know doing research into things tells

1616
01:07:32,750 --> 01:07:30,810
us when things perhaps do work but as I

1617
01:07:35,030 --> 01:07:32,760
know it's all the research has already

1618
01:07:37,100 --> 01:07:35,040
been done well that's why I mean it

1619
01:07:38,690 --> 01:07:37,110
what's new what's new Under the Sun when

1620
01:07:42,140 --> 01:07:38,700
a good night there's nothing new I mean

1621
01:07:46,040 --> 01:07:42,150
it's not that with you know poo pooing

1622
01:07:47,360 --> 01:07:46,050
the idea of investigating claims but

1623
01:07:49,220 --> 01:07:47,370
when the claims have all been looked at

1624
01:07:51,700 --> 01:07:49,230
complete when I mean when when things

1625
01:07:54,590 --> 01:07:51,710
like homeopathy have been on Astra bleah

1626
01:07:56,410 --> 01:07:54,600
unquestionably completely thrown out as

1627
01:07:59,030 --> 01:07:56,420
having any evidence based on whatsoever

1628
01:08:00,590 --> 01:07:59,040
why invest money in it well I mean on

1629
01:08:01,940 --> 01:08:00,600
top of that the National Center for

1630
01:08:06,650 --> 01:08:01,950
Complementary and alternative medicine

1631
01:08:09,050 --> 01:08:06,660
which is set up by the NIH has they

1632
01:08:09,710 --> 01:08:09,060
spent something like 2.5 billion dollars

1633
01:08:16,010 --> 01:08:09,720
in

1634
01:08:18,740 --> 01:08:16,020
rhyme with Richard it runs with hero

1635
01:08:21,680 --> 01:08:18,750
yeah so they came up with no efficacy or

1636
01:08:23,870 --> 01:08:21,690
not more of the complimentary modalities

1637
01:08:26,599 --> 01:08:23,880
that they looked at and but this is

1638
01:08:29,539 --> 01:08:26,609
going to be a group which is going to be

1639
01:08:31,579 --> 01:08:29,549
run from Germany hmm you know the funny

1640
01:08:33,530 --> 01:08:31,589
thing is i think it was Scott Hurst on

1641
01:08:37,550 --> 01:08:33,540
Twitter yesterday just he obviously had

1642
01:08:40,579 --> 01:08:37,560
a brain explosion just twittered why is

1643
01:08:42,709 --> 01:08:40,589
it that all the research into cam is not

1644
01:08:45,200 --> 01:08:42,719
being paid for by the practitioners or

1645
01:08:47,930 --> 01:08:45,210
the people involved and it's no big

1646
01:08:51,950 --> 01:08:47,940
never is I mean this is the EU the ncc

1647
01:08:54,459 --> 01:08:51,960
am well I think I think yeah I think I

1648
01:08:57,410 --> 01:08:54,469
think I'm not a bit a little bit of a

1649
01:09:00,320 --> 01:08:57,420
possible answer for why that is what was

1650
01:09:02,959 --> 01:09:00,330
our experience at mind-body wallet every

1651
01:09:05,300 --> 01:09:02,969
time we we questioned anyone they would

1652
01:09:07,519 --> 01:09:05,310
say on doing research into their

1653
01:09:11,749 --> 01:09:07,529
treatment they would throw it back on us

1654
01:09:13,849 --> 01:09:11,759
that was somehow up to us to show that

1655
01:09:15,800 --> 01:09:13,859
their treatment didn't work yeah it was

1656
01:09:17,390 --> 01:09:15,810
not up to them to show you how to do one

1657
01:09:18,979 --> 01:09:17,400
attending the ACE Awards in the

1658
01:09:21,019 --> 01:09:18,989
Starlight auditorium could try to make

1659
01:09:23,300 --> 01:09:21,029
way through and show us about to

1660
01:09:25,099 --> 01:09:23,310
recommence that's the ACE Awards in the

1661
01:09:27,470 --> 01:09:25,109
auditorium / trying to make way through

1662
01:09:31,729 --> 01:09:27,480
as shows Batman speaking well it's not a

1663
01:09:33,860 --> 01:09:31,739
bus announcement I guess um no I I think

1664
01:09:35,240 --> 01:09:33,870
that I'm really they just simply don't

1665
01:09:36,890 --> 01:09:35,250
actually think they have to demonstrate

1666
01:09:38,539 --> 01:09:36,900
it but you know what's convenient about

1667
01:09:40,700 --> 01:09:38,549
that Joe is that for example with

1668
01:09:46,700 --> 01:09:40,710
homeopathy for example I just repeated

1669
01:09:48,140 --> 01:09:46,710
myself apologies say begins jet lag

1670
01:09:51,459 --> 01:09:48,150
photos cards are you know what's

1671
01:09:54,520 --> 01:09:51,469
interesting about that time is that um

1672
01:09:57,500 --> 01:09:54,530
what I was gonna say Oh with homeopathy

1673
01:09:59,690 --> 01:09:57,510
people will say practitioners will say

1674
01:10:01,130 --> 01:09:59,700
but we haven't done enough testing yet

1675
01:10:02,750 --> 01:10:01,140
you know they'll say there's only been

1676
01:10:06,440 --> 01:10:02,760
two hundred years but we need to do more

1677
01:10:08,600 --> 01:10:06,450
testing when do you stop back after 200

1678
01:10:10,729 --> 01:10:08,610
years of scientific experiments they

1679
01:10:12,380 --> 01:10:10,739
then decide that that hasn't been enough

1680
01:10:14,120 --> 01:10:12,390
but then you're telling me that they say

1681
01:10:16,040 --> 01:10:14,130
we don't want to do that yes we don't

1682
01:10:18,140 --> 01:10:16,050
need to do that so although they'll

1683
01:10:19,410 --> 01:10:18,150
bleat about how much money real medicine

1684
01:10:21,750 --> 01:10:19,420
makes exactly

1685
01:10:23,550 --> 01:10:21,760
didn't we tell some people could have

1686
01:10:24,900 --> 01:10:23,560
been those nurses it was those nests and

1687
01:10:27,390 --> 01:10:24,910
was those nurses who were peddling

1688
01:10:29,550 --> 01:10:27,400
rubbish that we said to them but don't

1689
01:10:31,800 --> 01:10:29,560
you realize how much money alternative

1690
01:10:34,169 --> 01:10:31,810
medicine makes it's a multi-billion

1691
01:10:36,470 --> 01:10:34,179
dollar industry in the skeptics I was

1692
01:10:38,669 --> 01:10:36,480
investigating a fuel polarizing device

1693
01:10:40,919 --> 01:10:38,679
produced by an inventor called Norman

1694
01:10:43,110 --> 01:10:40,929
dodge consisted a very strongly magnets

1695
01:10:44,370 --> 01:10:43,120
that you clamp clamped around the fuel

1696
01:10:46,320 --> 01:10:44,380
line of your car and it saved youth

1697
01:10:49,560 --> 01:10:46,330
thirty percent of fuel and reduced to

1698
01:10:51,300 --> 01:10:49,570
emissions and so forth and I said Norman

1699
01:10:53,669 --> 01:10:51,310
what evidence have you got that these

1700
01:10:54,990 --> 01:10:53,679
magnets do anything to the fuel and he

1701
01:10:57,270 --> 01:10:55,000
said well he is reaching his bag and

1702
01:10:58,620 --> 01:10:57,280
pulled out a couple of magnets and said

1703
01:11:08,070 --> 01:10:58,630
look they're so strong they must do

1704
01:11:09,720 --> 01:11:08,080
something to him was evidence idolized

1705
01:11:11,939 --> 01:11:09,730
do you say though in support of the fact

1706
01:11:13,950 --> 01:11:11,949
that pharmaceutical companies make a lot

1707
01:11:16,020 --> 01:11:13,960
of money and the ones denies that no one

1708
01:11:19,410 --> 01:11:16,030
denies well to do a lot of people deny

1709
01:11:22,560 --> 01:11:19,420
that can does Joe what's would this is a

1710
01:11:26,370 --> 01:11:22,570
huge blue newspaper always different

1711
01:11:28,320 --> 01:11:26,380
what about this all about oh my husband

1712
01:11:30,390 --> 01:11:28,330
actually picked this up for Central

1713
01:11:33,000 --> 01:11:30,400
Station today and it seems like the

1714
01:11:36,360 --> 01:11:33,010
Scientologists are hard at work trying

1715
01:11:39,030 --> 01:11:36,370
to get their their propaganda out there

1716
01:11:43,530 --> 01:11:39,040
at the moment what's what's it's like a

1717
01:11:45,860 --> 01:11:43,540
big newspaper clear mind clear body

1718
01:11:48,930 --> 01:11:45,870
we're not in line it's all about the

1719
01:11:50,970 --> 01:11:48,940
Scientology purification rundown mmm

1720
01:11:52,800 --> 01:11:50,980
I've taken a few hits of late they have

1721
01:11:55,290 --> 01:11:52,810
they have some wonder whether they're

1722
01:11:57,930 --> 01:11:55,300
and their lead article is by l ron

1723
01:12:01,200 --> 01:11:57,940
hubbard hmm is he still alive i think

1724
01:12:02,340 --> 01:12:01,210
perhaps this area yes someone whom well

1725
01:12:04,740 --> 01:12:02,350
I tell you ever got here a little

1726
01:12:08,370 --> 01:12:04,750
questionnaire climb toll just want to

1727
01:12:11,820 --> 01:12:08,380
ask us oh yes so I'll just want to know

1728
01:12:13,500 --> 01:12:11,830
how toxic are you okay with this test

1729
01:12:15,180 --> 01:12:13,510
and find out why don't we all take this

1730
01:12:18,660 --> 01:12:15,190
survey ready they have their calendars

1731
01:12:20,880 --> 01:12:18,670
do it okay have you felt fatigued now

1732
01:12:23,790 --> 01:12:20,890
and then for no apparent reason oh yes

1733
01:12:26,220 --> 01:12:23,800
yes yeah do you ever feel wooden or

1734
01:12:29,280 --> 01:12:26,230
lifeless yes yes have you ever

1735
01:12:30,660 --> 01:12:29,290
experienced drunk flashbacks wait a

1736
01:12:33,689 --> 01:12:30,670
second what

1737
01:12:36,240 --> 01:12:33,699
yes alright let's leave that believe it

1738
01:12:39,150 --> 01:12:36,250
sorry do you feel less an earth than you

1739
01:12:40,979 --> 01:12:39,160
used to yes yes d sometimes get a

1740
01:12:42,990 --> 01:12:40,989
feeling of lightheadedness or a feeling

1741
01:12:47,370 --> 01:12:43,000
of being spaced out I'll have another

1742
01:12:49,950 --> 01:12:47,380
glass of show do you mean do you feel

1743
01:12:52,350 --> 01:12:49,960
irritable with that reason or cause yes

1744
01:12:55,020 --> 01:12:52,360
yes do you have unexplained aches and

1745
01:12:57,240 --> 01:12:55,030
pains ouch yeah you find it difficult to

1746
01:12:59,880 --> 01:12:57,250
get excited about people and things yes

1747
01:13:02,490 --> 01:12:59,890
yes do you find you feel anxious but

1748
01:13:04,169 --> 01:13:02,500
don't know why yes do you have trouble

1749
01:13:05,610 --> 01:13:04,179
learning new things even when you're

1750
01:13:10,410 --> 01:13:05,620
interested in them can you repeat that

1751
01:13:12,419 --> 01:13:10,420
do you Allen move on my own yeah well

1752
01:13:16,290 --> 01:13:12,429
then yes you've answered yes to all

1753
01:13:20,580 --> 01:13:16,300
these questions yes in Asia purification

1754
01:13:23,370 --> 01:13:20,590
rundown Ian what do you have to tell us

1755
01:13:26,459 --> 01:13:23,380
about your amazing adventures okay cup

1756
01:13:28,979 --> 01:13:26,469
of things over there out of the purpose

1757
01:13:30,810 --> 01:13:28,989
of holding the conference in Nepal with

1758
01:13:33,800 --> 01:13:30,820
such conference was that it's the

1759
01:13:37,490 --> 01:13:33,810
international humanist and ethical youth

1760
01:13:40,470 --> 01:13:37,500
organization all right hey oh oh and

1761
01:13:42,900 --> 01:13:40,480
they the international humanist group

1762
01:13:44,700 --> 01:13:42,910
runs a program in the ball in Nepal to

1763
01:13:46,439 --> 01:13:44,710
try and improve life in the villages and

1764
01:13:48,510 --> 01:13:46,449
the main purpose is to eliminate

1765
01:13:50,910 --> 01:13:48,520
superstition and they've got a traveling

1766
01:13:53,280 --> 01:13:50,920
group that goes around performing magic

1767
01:13:55,560 --> 01:13:53,290
for the kids and basically duplicating

1768
01:13:58,290 --> 01:13:55,570
the tricks of all the god men who claim

1769
01:14:00,660 --> 01:13:58,300
to listen is under lives handle dhryn

1770
01:14:04,740 --> 01:14:00,670
listeners may world go to google and

1771
01:14:06,540 --> 01:14:04,750
type in guru busters guru busters as a

1772
01:14:08,700 --> 01:14:06,550
video which is by the indian

1773
01:14:11,100 --> 01:14:08,710
rationalists who go around busting the

1774
01:14:13,709 --> 01:14:11,110
Godman willwerth look this particular

1775
01:14:16,110 --> 01:14:13,719
group goes to schools in the outlying

1776
01:14:17,580 --> 01:14:16,120
villages of Nepal and demonstrates to

1777
01:14:19,020 --> 01:14:17,590
the kids do a little song and dance free

1778
01:14:21,780 --> 01:14:19,030
magic tricks to teach the kids some

1779
01:14:24,479 --> 01:14:21,790
magic tricks to take home and hopefully

1780
01:14:26,760 --> 01:14:24,489
proofs them against superstitious

1781
01:14:29,010 --> 01:14:26,770
beliefs so they can improve their future

1782
01:14:31,860 --> 01:14:29,020
with a scientifically very much like our

1783
01:14:36,000 --> 01:14:31,870
local mystery mystery investigators

1784
01:14:38,300 --> 01:14:36,010
you heard of them dr. 18 ever okay there

1785
01:14:40,740 --> 01:14:38,310
was early snow in Beijing towards

1786
01:14:43,110 --> 01:14:40,750
developing early november this year when

1787
01:14:45,780 --> 01:14:43,120
i was there and the Chinese government

1788
01:14:48,330 --> 01:14:45,790
attributed that snow to their snow

1789
01:14:50,250 --> 01:14:48,340
making activities there are planes that

1790
01:14:51,960 --> 01:14:50,260
dropped silver iodide crystals in the

1791
01:14:53,820 --> 01:14:51,970
clouds I remember them talking about

1792
01:14:56,550 --> 01:14:53,830
that during the Olympic search is how

1793
01:14:58,710 --> 01:14:56,560
they're going to be yum the Australian

1794
01:15:00,870 --> 01:14:58,720
csir I was trying to do that about 50

1795
01:15:02,850 --> 01:15:00,880
years ago and concluded that there was

1796
01:15:04,980 --> 01:15:02,860
no evidence that the their activities

1797
01:15:06,930 --> 01:15:04,990
made any difference to the rainfall and

1798
01:15:08,190 --> 01:15:06,940
snowfall that being around men veined

1799
01:15:09,810 --> 01:15:08,200
anyway but anywhere the Chinese are

1800
01:15:11,820 --> 01:15:09,820
claiming that there is a connection

1801
01:15:13,880 --> 01:15:11,830
there maybe they're right scientific

1802
01:15:18,300 --> 01:15:13,890
evidence would be the way to tell and

1803
01:15:21,570 --> 01:15:18,310
finally we heard about the Iraqi

1804
01:15:25,680 --> 01:15:21,580
security forces as the NATO forces are

1805
01:15:28,080 --> 01:15:25,690
withdrawing who have been buying bomb

1806
01:15:30,840 --> 01:15:28,090
detecting devices operate on the same

1807
01:15:32,520 --> 01:15:30,850
principle as water divining this is

1808
01:15:34,290 --> 01:15:32,530
quite a big story thinking about it

1809
01:15:36,090 --> 01:15:34,300
literally seven million dollars they've

1810
01:15:38,610 --> 01:15:36,100
spent on them so far on these devices

1811
01:15:40,560 --> 01:15:38,620
that you wave over the car and then it's

1812
01:15:43,200 --> 01:15:40,570
entirely up to the operator whether he

1813
01:15:46,410 --> 01:15:43,210
senses the peasant machines telling him

1814
01:15:48,960 --> 01:15:46,420
there's a bomb in the car on this is the

1815
01:15:51,300 --> 01:15:48,970
dark side of the the same thinking

1816
01:15:54,510 --> 01:15:51,310
behind water divining listeners may also

1817
01:15:56,730 --> 01:15:54,520
wish to visit the website of the James

1818
01:15:59,460 --> 01:15:56,740
Randi Educational Foundation where James

1819
01:16:01,200 --> 01:15:59,470
Randi has reposted an article about this

1820
01:16:03,990 --> 01:16:01,210
he made a few years ago where he

1821
01:16:10,380 --> 01:16:04,000
actually just says this is fake fraud it

1822
01:16:11,850 --> 01:16:10,390
doesn't work very sad hmm anyway well

1823
01:16:13,680 --> 01:16:11,860
thank you everybody for coming along

1824
01:16:17,100 --> 01:16:13,690
what a fascinating think tank it was

1825
01:16:19,350 --> 01:16:17,110
most enjoyable I must once again once

1826
01:16:22,290 --> 01:16:19,360
again thank Alyssa Goldberg in New York

1827
01:16:27,730 --> 01:16:22,300
thank you we've consumed Lisa we've

1828
01:16:32,630 --> 01:16:31,130
yes sir that was all okay I did for me

1829
01:16:34,840 --> 01:16:32,640
learning to the end the skeptical

1830
01:16:37,910 --> 01:16:34,850
investigation in the bottle of champagne

1831
01:16:40,100 --> 01:16:37,920
Alyssa in New York I don't know if I'm

1832
01:16:42,290 --> 01:16:40,110
Madison Alyssa please write to it dry to

1833
01:16:44,150 --> 01:16:42,300
dr. H E which is what's your email

1834
01:16:47,150 --> 01:16:44,160
address at the skeptics and Rachel at

1835
01:16:49,730 --> 01:16:47,160
skeptics on TV that is otherwise I'm

1836
01:16:52,210 --> 01:16:49,740
gonna be in New York in a few weeks no

1837
01:16:55,130 --> 01:16:52,220
Joe you can catch up with a miserable

1838
01:16:58,010 --> 01:16:55,140
listeners in New York um please have

1839
01:17:01,400 --> 01:16:58,020
sundin in London yes visit the skeptics

1840
01:17:05,390 --> 01:17:01,410
own website and Chicago anywhere as

1841
01:17:07,280 --> 01:17:05,400
possible I did ask please visit the

1842
01:17:09,200 --> 01:17:07,290
skeptics own website look for the

1843
01:17:11,390 --> 01:17:09,210
contact pages and you can write to Joe

1844
01:17:14,600 --> 01:17:11,400
mm-hmm she's going to be traveling every

1845
01:17:16,580 --> 01:17:14,610
other every major city in the orders and

1846
01:17:19,880 --> 01:17:16,590
you can meet Joe Benna move from the

1847
01:17:22,280 --> 01:17:19,890
skeptics own podcast ah well look no

1848
01:17:24,290 --> 01:17:22,290
it's fabulous thing think I've really

1849
01:17:25,840 --> 01:17:24,300
enjoyed it no bus announcements but you

1850
01:17:28,490 --> 01:17:25,850
can't have them all you can have it all

1851
01:17:30,080 --> 01:17:28,500
thank you very much Joe for coming on

1852
01:17:32,570 --> 01:17:30,090
thank you to the other side of the

1853
01:17:35,510 --> 01:17:32,580
harbor the other side yes thank you ian

1854
01:17:38,060 --> 01:17:35,520
bryce for coming along welcome and dr.

1855
01:17:39,740 --> 01:17:38,070
rachey battling jet lag because she just

1856
01:17:42,950 --> 01:17:39,750
got off the plane this morning from

1857
01:17:45,740 --> 01:17:42,960
miami and she's been numbed by miami

1858
01:17:47,270 --> 01:17:45,750
mosquitoes they're covered in scabs and

1859
01:17:50,990 --> 01:17:47,280
my ankles are swollen that's incredible

1860
01:17:53,990 --> 01:17:51,000
it is about what 30 mosquito bite on her

1861
01:17:56,380 --> 01:17:54,000
foot on one foot alone and her ankles

1862
01:17:59,120 --> 01:17:56,390
are swollen from obviously very tasty I

1863
01:18:01,460 --> 01:17:59,130
think so my twitter friends have seen

1864
01:18:03,470 --> 01:18:01,470
the pictures yes yes it's how can you

1865
01:18:06,350 --> 01:18:03,480
live pictures what's your twitter again

1866
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dr. gene doctor right add dr. agur i'm

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at joe been hmoo benh am you and I don't

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01:18:13,940 --> 01:18:12,240
think he embraced his twitter and if I'm

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everybody has a website called world's

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truth day

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truth table and the skeptic zone is of

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course twitter at skeptics out and on

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till the next think tank it's cheers

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czerny Molly and I was just an excuse to

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this is desiree shell hosted skeptically

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01:18:57,070 --> 01:18:54,739
speaking check out our website it's

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01:19:00,940 --> 01:18:57,080
chemically speaking calm and listen to

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us live on CJ sr 88.5 FM in Edmonton

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Alberta Canada I now return you to the

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thank you very much for listening to the

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01:19:23,720 --> 01:19:22,140
skeptic zone next week er very

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01:19:26,480 --> 01:19:23,730
interesting series of interviews dr.

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Richie on her recent trip to Florida

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caught up with Phil Plait Phil plates

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mother DJ Grothe and James Randi that's

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next week on the show worth waiting for

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01:19:40,430 --> 01:19:37,980
and don't forget if you want to

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01:19:43,400 --> 01:19:40,440
subscribe to the skeptic zone only cost

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01:19:47,020 --> 01:19:43,410
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01:19:50,600 --> 01:19:47,030
to you can do that via wwc aiptek zone

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TV until next week this is Richard

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Saunders signing off from Sydney

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Australia you've been listening to the

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skeptic zone visit our website at www

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scripting zone TV for comments contacts

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skin